Pilgrim<br><br>When you said: "All the cults use that type of fractured logic and twist the Bible into a Gordian knot so as to avoid "what it actually says"!"<br><br>Would I be correct that you are not talking about Arminians here? (Though obviously some may be included)<br><br>Is criley's interpretation the same as what the average Arminian would conclude?<br>Sorry I am just curious is this is the norm.<br><br>Tom<br>