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xyz #39625 Thu Jun 26, 2008 3:06 PM
Joined: Sep 2003
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Persnickety Presbyterian
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Quote
xyz said:

It is quite true that, had God known that there would be none of His creation who loved the truth, creation of the cosmos and the crucifixion would have been pointless. But the existence of some who would love the truth made necessary that creation, with its ample opportunity for rebellion against God. And because all would rebel, all would have to have their rebellion accounted for, with not one claiming impunity. So the Christ had to die for all, though for the sake of only those who would treat that death as their salvation.

HELL is where the unrepentant account for their rebellion, where they spend eternity under the wrath of God. IF CHRIST DIED FOR THESE SAME PERSONS, His death was in vain inasmuch as they still end up in hell for their rebellion against God. If Christ died for all, he died for the sake of all. To say otherwise is illogical. However, if He did indeed die for all, then all must be saved, or else His death was in vain to the extent that anyone ends up in hell.


Kyle

I tell you, this man went down to his house justified.
Joined: Jun 2008
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xyz Offline
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CovenantInBlood said:
Quote
xyz said:

It is quite true that, had God known that there would be none of His creation who loved the truth, creation of the cosmos and the crucifixion would have been pointless. But the existence of some who would love the truth made necessary that creation, with its ample opportunity for rebellion against God. And because all would rebel, all would have to have their rebellion accounted for, with not one claiming impunity. So the Christ had to die for all, though for the sake of only those who would treat that death as their salvation.

HELL is where the unrepentant account for their rebellion, where they spend eternity under the wrath of God. IF CHRIST DIED FOR THESE SAME PERSONS, His death was in vain inasmuch as they still end up in hell for their rebellion against God.
How many does God think it worth dying for? He said that Sodom would not be destroyed if just ten righteous people were to be found in it- and who knows what he would have said if Abe had had the nerve to bid lower. Yet He also said that Abraham's descendants would be as as numerous as the stars in the sky and as the sand on the seashore (though I can't see too many of them coming from this generation). So who is to say that Jesus' death was in vain?

xyz #39627 Thu Jun 26, 2008 5:32 PM
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xyz,
I read your posts and the patient answers you are being given and I can only say: Stop the craziness! What you post makes no sense and is not even remotely biblical. You post these comments as if they are fact and don't seem willing to understand what everyone is trying to tell you,. It seems to me too much time has been spent casting pearls....
If you were sincerely seeking the truth, it would be evident but you seem to be playing a game.

xyz #39628 Thu Jun 26, 2008 6:04 PM
Joined: Aug 2001
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Wes Offline
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Quote
xyz said:

So who is to say that Jesus' death was in vain?

The Apostle Paul addressed that very question in his letter to the Galatians. Chapter two verse twenty one tells us "If righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain." So we know that if a person thinks he can be saved by works of the law then to him Christ's death is in vain.

Christ did not die in vain


Wes


When I survey the wondrous cross on which the Prince of Glory died, my richest gain I count but loss and pour contempt on all my pride. - Isaac Watts
Wes #39629 Thu Jun 26, 2008 6:19 PM
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xyz Offline
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Wes said:
Quote
xyz said:

So who is to say that Jesus' death was in vain?

The Apostle Paul addressed that very question in his letter to the Galatians. Chapter two verse twenty one tells us "If righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain." So we know that if a person thinks he can be saved by works of the law then to him Christ's death is in vain.
Very true.

xyz #39630 Thu Jun 26, 2008 6:24 PM
Joined: Sep 2003
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Persnickety Presbyterian
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Quote
xyz said:
Quote
CovenantInBlood said:

HELL is where the unrepentant account for their rebellion, where they spend eternity under the wrath of God. IF CHRIST DIED FOR THESE SAME PERSONS, His death was in vain inasmuch as they still end up in hell for their rebellion against God.
How many does God think it worth dying for? He said that Sodom would not be destroyed if just ten righteous people were to be found in it- and who knows what he would have said if Abe had had the nerve to bid lower. Yet He also said that Abraham's descendants would be as as numerous as the stars in the sky and as the sand on the seashore (though I can't see too many of them coming from this generation). So who is to say that Jesus' death was in vain?

I am not saying that Jesus' death was in vain. You're saying that Jesus' death does not save the unrepentant because of their unrepentance; the unrepentant nullify Jesus' death for themselves. If that is the case, then Jesus died in vain for those who are unrepentant, because His death does not save them. That is the logical implication of all that you've been saying.


Kyle

I tell you, this man went down to his house justified.
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 70
xyz Offline
Journeyman
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Quote
CovenantInBlood said:
Quote
xyz said:
Quote
CovenantInBlood said:

HELL is where the unrepentant account for their rebellion, where they spend eternity under the wrath of God. IF CHRIST DIED FOR THESE SAME PERSONS, His death was in vain inasmuch as they still end up in hell for their rebellion against God.
How many does God think it worth dying for? He said that Sodom would not be destroyed if just ten righteous people were to be found in it- and who knows what he would have said if Abe had had the nerve to bid lower. Yet He also said that Abraham's descendants would be as as numerous as the stars in the sky and as the sand on the seashore (though I can't see too many of them coming from this generation). So who is to say that Jesus' death was in vain?

I am not saying that Jesus' death was in vain. You're saying that Jesus' death does not save the unrepentant because of their unrepentance; the unrepentant nullify Jesus' death for themselves. If that is the case, then Jesus died in vain for those who are unrepentant, because His death does not save them.
It is quite true that, had God known that there would be none of His creation who loved the truth, creation of the cosmos and the crucifixion would have been pointless. But the existence of some who would love the truth made necessary that creation, with its ample opportunity for rebellion against God. And because all would rebel, all would have to have their rebellion accounted for, with not one claiming impunity. So the Christ had to die for all, though for the sake of only those who would treat that death as their salvation.

xyz #39632 Thu Jun 26, 2008 7:54 PM
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 2,040
Persnickety Presbyterian
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Quote
xyz said:

It is quite true that, had God known that there would be none of His creation who loved the truth, creation of the cosmos and the crucifixion would have been pointless. But the existence of some who would love the truth made necessary that creation, with its ample opportunity for rebellion against God. And because all would rebel, all would have to have their rebellion accounted for, with not one claiming impunity. So the Christ had to die for all, though for the sake of only those who would treat that death as their salvation.

Copying and pasting what you've previously said is not a reply. It is intellectual sloth. Keep this up, and you won't be here long. bif


Kyle

I tell you, this man went down to his house justified.
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 70
xyz Offline
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Quote
CovenantInBlood said:
Quote
xyz said:

It is quite true that, had God known that there would be none of His creation who loved the truth, creation of the cosmos and the crucifixion would have been pointless. But the existence of some who would love the truth made necessary that creation, with its ample opportunity for rebellion against God. And because all would rebel, all would have to have their rebellion accounted for, with not one claiming impunity. So the Christ had to die for all, though for the sake of only those who would treat that death as their salvation.

Copying and pasting what you've previously said is not a reply.

You read and understood it the first time?

xyz #39634 Fri Jun 27, 2008 11:12 AM
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 1,856
Wes Offline
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xyz,

I must confess I haven't read every reply in this (now very long) thread but since you been debating the question "for whom did Christ die" I'd like to ask you which of the following statements do you believe to be true?


1. Christ died for some of the sins of all men.

2. Christ died for all the sins of some men.

3. Christ died for all the sins of all men.

Please provide Scripture texts which support your view.


Wes


When I survey the wondrous cross on which the Prince of Glory died, my richest gain I count but loss and pour contempt on all my pride. - Isaac Watts
Wes #39635 Fri Jun 27, 2008 11:29 AM
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xyz Offline
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Wes said:
xyz,

I must confess I haven't read every reply in this (now very long) thread but since you been debating the question "for whom did Christ die" I'd like to ask you
Why me?

xyz #39636 Fri Jun 27, 2008 12:35 PM
Joined: Aug 2001
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Wes Offline
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Quote
xyz said:
Quote
Wes said:
xyz,

I must confess I haven't read every reply in this (now very long) thread but since you been debating the question "for whom did Christ die" I'd like to ask you

Why me?

Why not you? Everyone seems confused by your replies and it would be good for us to know where you stand in regards to this matter. If you chose not to reply then it becomes obvious that you are disingenuos and further communication would be fruitless.

So again I ask.... which of the following statements do you believe to be true?


1. Christ died for some of the sins of all men.

2. Christ died for all the sins of some men.

3. Christ died for all the sins of all men.

Please provide Scripture texts which support your view.


Wes


When I survey the wondrous cross on which the Prince of Glory died, my richest gain I count but loss and pour contempt on all my pride. - Isaac Watts
Wes #39637 Fri Jun 27, 2008 1:09 PM
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Posts: 70
xyz Offline
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Quote
Wes said:
Quote
xyz said:
Quote
Wes said:
xyz,

I must confess I haven't read every reply in this (now very long) thread but since you been debating the question "for whom did Christ die" I'd like to ask you

Why me?

Why not you? Everyone seems confused by your replies
They do? Ask on your own account.

xyz #39638 Fri Jun 27, 2008 4:30 PM
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 2,040
Persnickety Presbyterian
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Posts: 2,040
Quote
xyz said:
Quote
CovenantInBlood said:
Quote
xyz said:

It is quite true that, had God known that there would be none of His creation who loved the truth, creation of the cosmos and the crucifixion would have been pointless. But the existence of some who would love the truth made necessary that creation, with its ample opportunity for rebellion against God. And because all would rebel, all would have to have their rebellion accounted for, with not one claiming impunity. So the Christ had to die for all, though for the sake of only those who would treat that death as their salvation.

Copying and pasting what you've previously said is not a reply.

You read and understood it the first time?

I made this reply the first time.

It appears everyone in this thread who has replied to you has experienced frustration with your responses. We're not all idiots, XYZ. Some lucidity on your part would be appreciated, but if you're not willing to make yourself clear or to provide legitimate responses to our questions & comments, you will be banned.


Kyle

I tell you, this man went down to his house justified.
xyz #39639 Fri Jun 27, 2008 5:17 PM
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 1,579
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I cannot even understand the ABC's of XYZ's posts...


True godliness is a sincere feeling which loves God as Father as much as it fears and reverences Him as Lord, embraces His righteousness, and dreads offending Him worse than death~ Calvin
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