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Joe k said: Faith may also be used in the subjective sense, i.e. the work of grace in the heart, as in Romans 5:1. However, even there, faith is not the instrument or cause of our justification, but the fruit of it. Hmmmmm, I have to object strongly to this notion of yours on exegetical grounds. Can you please EXEGETE this text and show that it warrants your new-found view? Romans 5:1 "Being therefore justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ;"
Joe then asserts: The instrument of our justification is always the righteousness of Christ, once for all established by Christ, accepted, approved and imputed to the account of all the elect of all time there and then, Hebrews 10:10. Again, I must reject your conclusion based on sound exegesis of this text. Please EXEGETE this passage and thus warrant your view, and especially that it is even speaking of "justification". Hebrews 10:10 "By which will we have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all."
Lastly, you posit: Therefore being justified, it is by faith (the gift of faith to believe) that redeemed and justified sinners come to learn of their redemption, justification, and forgiveness of sins and enter into the peace with God in their spirits, souls, and consciences. However, it is not then that God imputes the righteousness of Christ. That was already done on their behalf at the cross! 2 Corinthians 5:21 What you are have said here is very much like that asserted by neo-Orthodoxy's adherents, e.g., Karl Barth. He held that there is a group called the "elect-elect" who differ from the "elect-reject" in that the come to know, experience, realize that they are elect when they believe. In other words, faith is simply the apprehension of what has already occurred and doesn't actually effect the person's standing before God. What I could easily conclude is that there is no real need of the elect to believe since they are already justified; their judicial punishment has been assumed by Christ and His righteousness imputed to them. The only benefit of one's believing is subjective; e.g., an appeased conscience.  but there is simply an overwhelming amount of passages which perspicuously state that one is justified, i.e., made right, declared righteous, by (through) the means of faith and not before. Philip Eveson's incontrovertible exposé on justification is something you really should read. Click here: The Great Exchange. Justification: "If the purity of this doctrine is in any degree impaired the Church has received a deadly wound and brought to the very brink of destruction. Whenever the knowledge of it is taken away, the glory of Christ is extinguished, religion abolished, the Church destroyed and the hope of salvation utterly overthrown. - John Calvin "The Necessity of Reforming the Church" p. 42
In His Grace,
simul iustus et peccator
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Entire Thread
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Eternal Justification
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Pilgrim
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Sun Mar 06, 2005 6:59 PM
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Re: Eternal Justification
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Pilgrim
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Sun Mar 06, 2005 9:15 PM
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Re: Eternal Justification
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William
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Mon Mar 07, 2005 10:51 AM
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Re: Eternal Justification
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Pilgrim
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Mon Mar 07, 2005 3:32 PM
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Re: Eternal Justification
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William
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Tue Mar 08, 2005 1:49 AM
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Re: Eternal Justification
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Pilgrim
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Tue Mar 08, 2005 4:43 AM
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Re: Eternal Justification
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Joe k
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Tue Mar 08, 2005 3:51 PM
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Re: Eternal Justification
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Pilgrim
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Tue Mar 08, 2005 6:12 PM
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Re: Eternal Justification
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Joe k
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Tue Mar 08, 2005 6:32 PM
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Re: Eternal Justification
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Pilgrim
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Tue Mar 08, 2005 7:11 PM
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Re: Eternal Justification
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Joe k
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Tue Mar 08, 2005 7:18 PM
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Re: Eternal Justification
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Pilgrim
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Tue Mar 08, 2005 7:26 PM
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Re: Eternal Justification
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Joe k
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Tue Mar 08, 2005 7:35 PM
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Re: Eternal Justification
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J_Edwards
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Tue Mar 08, 2005 7:28 PM
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Re: Eternal Justification
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Joe k
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Tue Mar 08, 2005 7:38 PM
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Re: Eternal Justification
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J_Edwards
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Tue Mar 08, 2005 8:14 PM
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Re: Eternal Justification
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Joe k
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Tue Mar 08, 2005 8:28 PM
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Re: Eternal Justification
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J_Edwards
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Tue Mar 08, 2005 10:53 PM
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Re: Eternal Justification
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Ruth
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Wed Mar 09, 2005 4:11 AM
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Anonymous
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Mon Mar 14, 2005 2:41 AM
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Re: Eternal Justification
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DaveVan3
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Tue Mar 08, 2005 6:36 PM
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Re: Eternal Justification
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J_Edwards
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Tue Mar 08, 2005 6:43 PM
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Re: Eternal Justification
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Joe k
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Re: Eternal Justification
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Joe k
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Tue Mar 08, 2005 7:20 PM
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Re: Eternal Justification
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Joe k
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Joe k
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Re: Eternal Justification
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Pilgrim
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Tue Mar 08, 2005 7:40 PM
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Re: Eternal Justification
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Joe k
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Tue Mar 08, 2005 7:54 PM
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Re: Eternal Justification
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DaveVan3
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Wed Mar 09, 2005 1:27 AM
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Re: Eternal Justification
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Joe k
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Wed Mar 09, 2005 11:06 AM
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Re: Eternal Justification
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J_Edwards
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Joe k
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Wed Mar 09, 2005 1:23 PM
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Ruth
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Wed Mar 09, 2005 4:24 PM
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Re: Eternal Justification
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Joe k
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Re: Eternal Justification
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Pilgrim
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Re: Eternal Justification
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Joe k
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Wed Mar 09, 2005 3:07 PM
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William
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Wed Mar 09, 2005 12:33 AM
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Re: Eternal Justification
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Pilgrim
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Wed Mar 09, 2005 1:28 AM
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Tom
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Wed Mar 09, 2005 10:24 PM
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Re: Eternal Justification
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Joe k
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Thu Mar 10, 2005 4:56 PM
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Re: Eternal Justification
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Ruth
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Thu Mar 10, 2005 6:08 PM
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Re: Eternal Justification
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Joe k
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Thu Mar 10, 2005 6:18 PM
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Re: Eternal Justification
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Joe k
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Thu Mar 10, 2005 6:37 PM
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Re: Eternal Justification
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Pilgrim
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Re: Eternal Justification
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Joe k
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Re: Eternal Justification
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J_Edwards
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Pilgrim
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Re: Eternal Justification
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Joe k
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Fri Mar 11, 2005 12:54 AM
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CovenantInBlood
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Re: Eternal Justification
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Joe k
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CovenantInBlood
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DaveVan3
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Joe k
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Fri Mar 11, 2005 12:39 AM
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Pilgrim
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Fri Mar 11, 2005 3:02 AM
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William
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J_Edwards
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William
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J_Edwards
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Pilgrim
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Joe k
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Tue Mar 08, 2005 2:24 AM
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