Dear William,

The book of Genesis records that Abel was killed by his brother Cain. The blood covenant is contrasted with this first shed blood. Cain is certainly in dialogue with God in Genesis, that is if one maintians a (literal, not metaphysical symbolic approach to Genesis.)

Fellowship is a big word and I agree Cain was certainly in hot water with God after murdering his brother. It was the first recorded murder (that is if you are not over spiritualizing the text). Adam and Eve did not die spiritually (whatever that means). Certainly one might draw inferences to a lack of intimacy with God, but it is certain that the main character of the Bible is continually in dialogue with the banished one's. Some got unbanished and were allowed to leave this earth before death. (Enoch, Elijah and others ???) <speculative.

The idea of koinonia, or intimacy that was shared in the Garden is a closed book (metaphorically speaking), but God is not walking around in the cool of the day with no one to talk to. He clearly comes out of the Garden and talks and walks down through the pages of history, and is still doing so today, for if it were not so then Immanuel would not have any offspring. (okay, I am going a little bit to flowery now. Time to stop.)

If you read slowly through the Old Testament you will find that there are some who walked with God and others who did not, however, it is not uncommon for God to talk to publicans and sinners, and certainly the New Testament reveals GOD incarnate doing just that. This thread seems to be bouncing into other thread ideas at the moment, so I am going to give it a rest, lest they all cover exactly the same thought.

Banishment of the Adamic race in Adam is pretty conclusive for me. The ideas that Adam fell, is still not something that I think adequately expresses what happened to Adam when they passed the Cherubim gaurds and the flaming sword that went every way, and were locked out of the intimate cool of the day etc. etc. The new location was filled with all the curses of God's upon the serpent, the man and the woman. The race of Adam was doomed to die out, eventually. I however still read of a God that has far from lost interest in them, and reciprocation both vocally and emotionally. I am not too convinced about the idea that these were dead. Paul calls Adam, 'a living soul' ... intersting that this race are characterized by being soulishly alive, not dead. Unless we are just holding to a creed and not willing to explore this with honesty.

I think I hear God calling, "Adam and Eve, where are you?" It is true that we hide, but not God. He cannot hide and therefore we are never truly hidden.