William,

I am a little to tired to respond to the passages you have chosen. They are good one's but one needs to be careful not to mix deaths. In Genesis the death that they tasted was physical death not spiritual.

Certainly they were expelled, banished. However, God is not banished from anywhere, and like the headmaster could easily come to my orphanage and talk to me. God certainly does talk to Cain, and many throughout History and some most unsavoury characters.

He talks to the little ones, of which we all were. In dreams in daydreams by angelic visitation and the like. Before the dye as it were is cast we do have knowledge of good and evil, but it cannot save us, only convict us when we do wrong. (Gentile bummer). The Jews had tons of revelations from God, and yes their faithlessness and impenitence certainly added up a whole lot of anger from God, and not just them but all men as the slide toward the flood, and the slide toward what is coming. (Peter saw the coming of annihilation by fire. The gradual slide into oblivion, ... I am repeating my answer to Pilgrim. (read there).

I agree that we were dead, but were we existed did we not, and even though we were professional sinners, we were convicted of our unbelief in the Son of God, of our lack of right standing, and of the fact that if we continued unrepentant, we would end up in the lake of fire. We need to exist to be sinners. To make us void of all, totally inabled is to deprive us of the neccessary stuff to enable us to even know what needs to be known to be accussed to be judged by GOD.

I am probably no longer making much sense, but seriously I have had this discussion before and there is no description in Genesis of the actual state of Adam and Eve after Eden, if anything up till the time they are expelled they are talking to God, seeing God ? There is no reason for this to not have continued, and certainly from the accounts we have God is very present tense even with baddies like Cain, we it is said, 'went out from the presense of the Lord.'

Enough,