You say:
Funny thing is that even when I went to Arminian Churches, they taught about the "fall of Adam".

I say:
Now by and Arminian Church, I suspect you mean one that teaches that man has 'free will' and that salvation is by faith works, or some variation on that theme. I was in such a Church for about 5 years; my first five years as a little lamb for Jesus. I guess I only really noticed that they were Arminian after I met a Calvinist, who was a member of this Arminian, well dare I say Calminian Church. Not to get to confusing. I attended the Wednesday night Bible Study and it was a pretty good bible study. I thought he was very balanced telling us to walk the walk, talk the talk and most of all to allow the Holy Spirit to work in our lives the wonderful salvation etc. The frustration came when they kept saying, 1. Read your Bible more, 2. Pray more, 3. Do more for the Church, 4. Pay your tithe regularly, 5. Walk in holiness unto the Lord. Now to all intents and purposes these sound perfectly good but when you are not given the truth, over time you begin to become unhappy, unmotivated and just stop going, well not all. Some like to hang in for the coffee, the friendship and the fact that many are old and set in their ways, sort of like some of those in Calvinistic Churches who ride on Donkeyma, I mean Dogma. Sort of stubborn, dogmatic and set in their ways, so if the Spirit were to move they would not even know if He had or hadn't....but I am going to quickly. Now, I guess you are not outright calling me an Arminian, but if you knew me you would not use words like that, or even Semi-Pelagian which was Dr. Pilgrim's diagnosis. The joke is I have been on Arminian sites and they called me a Double Headed Predestinarian after calling me an Evangelical, and best yet a Calvinist on a Calminian site. Somewhere, somehow all the little game with boxing, deep freezing and cutting brothers to shreds in the name of Calvinism, or Arminianism, or any new designation that best describes the group of theological points times five that one associates with as being the ABSOLUTE unalterable truth, has got to STOP!

Robin, from the start has been on my case trying to get me into his Anti-Charismatic club. Now truth be told I am not a Charismatic, but was once a good Baptist, but I just found that all the creedal stuff was so TOP HEAVY, that I began to have a need for fresh air, spiritually speaking. The dull atmosphere and lack of excitement about worshipping Jesus and loving Jesus just really (got my goat) < a good old freemasons term.

So I packed up my things and decided to give your forum a wide berth. You know the guys who throw the Spirit out in favour of their creeds...bone dry religion, very correct but painfully precise and decidedly British, though Calvin was flamboyantly French and a lawyer. None of the systematic that I have heard defended are decidely infallable, or dogmatically Scripturalistic, but instead bend like one of Uri Geller's spoons, should the right heat be approached.

You say:
Yes they were inconsistent in the fact that they taught that the fall caused man to be sick in trespasses and sins, not dead in trespasses and sins. But never the less they still taught the fall of Adam.

I say:
Teaching topically is what some folks like to do. I prefer that sermon that just hangs out, and you have no idea when you are going to be blushing as the Holy Spirit sets to work on your pride, lust or covetousness. Oh the joys of conviction that results in goldly sorrow, leading to genuine repentance and being right with God, oh that sunny smile that follows when you know that you have nothing you are hiding. Adam and Eve were hiding, but only until the Lord called to them and discussed the terms of their banishment and the terms of the curses and beautiful passage relating to the seed that would come. Christ.

I only object to the idea of the fall of man as a title to what happened when it is linked to the idea of total depravity and then an idea called 'spiritually dead' sucked out of nowhere to describe the state of Adam (and Eve) after they disobeyed God's clear command to them, not to eat of the tree. The curse involves death (physical) not death spiritual, that only happened if they outside the garden did not walk and worship the Lord. The most certainly deteriorated until... Yes, they were in hot water with God. It is just making Scripture say what it does not that is a true sign of a dogmatic scripturalist. <I hope you don't think I mean you are.

You say:
This makes me wonder where you might be getting your teaching.

I say:
Well, that is a loaded dice if ever there was, I could say the same to you, but I know where you got it. From j.c. I just find ideas like Total Depravity are good for those who wish to preach the TULIP in perfection, but if you have problems with certain areas it does not mean that out comes the decimating sword of judgement to lop off false doctrine, I do not believe that the TULIP is exact and absolute, maybe to a Calvinist, but to an Arminian it is poison, and just about anyone who does not follow it exactly. I believe I have the Spirit of Christ and those who do not are none of His.

Buzzing,