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Joined: Sep 2009
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Journeyman
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Journeyman
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 48 |
Hi Kyle, I don't see why you are sure why "the flesh" of verse 63 is not a metaphor for unbelief, as it is elsewhere.
Moreover, we are saved literally by Christ's flesh, as verse 51 says, unless you want to say that both "bread" and "flesh" are metaphors, in which case the sentence is null, as are verses 52-56.
I looked at the Webster article. It is inaccurate. The basic problem is that none of the fathers argued for a purely symbolic view. They saw the symbolic aspect in the offering of the bread and wine, and the appearance of bread and wine, but also the bodily transubstantiation.
Moreover all the fathers he mentions were Catholics who held not only to Jn 6, but to numerous ideas incompatible with protestantism, the easiest to prove being the issue of baptismal regeneration and Apostolic succession. So there is not one of these fathers that could be shown to be a forerunner of modern protestantism.
The Clement of Alexandria chapter which Webster uses as evidence is evidence for Catholic belief: "’Eat my flesh,’ [Jesus] says, ‘and drink my blood.’ The Lord supplies us with these intimate nutrients, he delivers over his flesh and pours out his blood, and nothing is lacking for the growth of his children" (The Instructor of Children 1:6:43:3 [A.D. 191]).
I hope this provides further fruitful reflection on my part and your part.
In Jesus, Dan Schultz
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Entire Thread
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Irenaeus on Transubstantiation
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patricius79
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Thu Sep 10, 2009 8:45 PM
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Re: Irenaeus on Transubstantiation
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Pilgrim
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Thu Sep 10, 2009 8:56 PM
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Re: Irenaeus on Transubstantiation
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patricius79
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Fri Sep 11, 2009 11:01 AM
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Re: Irenaeus on Transubstantiation
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Pilgrim
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Fri Sep 11, 2009 1:08 PM
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Re: Irenaeus on Transubstantiation
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patricius79
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Sat Sep 12, 2009 1:18 PM
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Re: Irenaeus on Transubstantiation
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Pilgrim
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Sat Sep 12, 2009 2:23 PM
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Re: Irenaeus on Transubstantiation
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patricius79
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Sun Sep 13, 2009 3:07 PM
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Re: Irenaeus on Transubstantiation
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patricius79
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Mon Sep 14, 2009 2:10 PM
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Re: Irenaeus on Transubstantiation
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Pilgrim
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Tue Sep 15, 2009 1:01 PM
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Re: Irenaeus on Transubstantiation
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chestnutmare
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Tue Sep 15, 2009 1:02 PM
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Re: Irenaeus on Transubstantiation
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patricius79
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Tue Sep 15, 2009 2:07 PM
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Re: Irenaeus on Transubstantiation
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CovenantInBlood
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Wed Sep 16, 2009 4:03 PM
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Re: Irenaeus on Transubstantiation
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patricius79
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Wed Sep 16, 2009 5:36 PM
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Re: Irenaeus on Transubstantiation
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CovenantInBlood
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Wed Sep 16, 2009 10:57 PM
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Re: Irenaeus on Transubstantiation
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patricius79
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Thu Sep 17, 2009 1:34 AM
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Re: Irenaeus on Transubstantiation
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Tom
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Thu Sep 17, 2009 4:29 AM
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Re: Irenaeus on Transubstantiation
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CovenantInBlood
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Thu Sep 17, 2009 4:57 PM
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Re: Irenaeus on Transubstantiation
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patricius79
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Fri Sep 18, 2009 1:18 AM
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Re: Irenaeus on Transubstantiation
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CovenantInBlood
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Fri Sep 18, 2009 8:07 PM
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Re: Irenaeus on Transubstantiation
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patricius79
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Sat Sep 19, 2009 3:17 AM
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Re: Irenaeus on Transubstantiation
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CovenantInBlood
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Sat Sep 19, 2009 3:49 PM
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Re: Irenaeus on Transubstantiation
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patricius79
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Sat Sep 19, 2009 8:50 PM
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Re: Irenaeus on Transubstantiation
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Pilgrim
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Sat Sep 19, 2009 10:38 PM
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Re: Irenaeus on Transubstantiation
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patricius79
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Sun Sep 20, 2009 10:02 PM
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Re: Irenaeus on Transubstantiation
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Pilgrim
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Mon Sep 21, 2009 1:11 AM
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Re: Irenaeus on Transubstantiation
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patricius79
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Mon Sep 21, 2009 4:02 AM
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Re: Irenaeus on Transubstantiation
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Pilgrim
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Mon Sep 21, 2009 10:59 AM
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Re: Irenaeus on Transubstantiation
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AC.
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Tue Sep 22, 2009 4:55 PM
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Re: Irenaeus on Transubstantiation
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CovenantInBlood
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Sun Sep 20, 2009 7:06 PM
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Re: Irenaeus on Transubstantiation
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AC.
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Wed Oct 14, 2009 5:40 PM
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Re: Irenaeus on Transubstantiation
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patricius79
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Thu Oct 15, 2009 12:24 PM
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Re: Irenaeus on Transubstantiation
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CovenantInBlood
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Thu Oct 15, 2009 10:58 PM
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Re: Irenaeus on Transubstantiation
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patricius79
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Fri Oct 16, 2009 2:13 AM
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Re: Irenaeus on Transubstantiation
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CovenantInBlood
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Fri Oct 16, 2009 2:35 PM
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