Dear Fred,<br><br>IRT:<br>"But Josh, if you are correct that it is God who gives the men the power to obey his will, then why are you opposed perseverance of the saints? Can not God fully save when he wills to do so? I would think that if God gives the power for men to obey, then he can equally give the power for them to remain in that realm of eternal life."<br><br>He does give them the power to remain by the Holy Ghost, but He does not force them to remain. I am opposed to eternal security on Biblical grounds.<br><br>IRT:<br>"I do believe you are still confused about our God-centered vs. man-centered argument. You believe that God only does his part in the work of salvation, that is, he has provided a way to salvation. And moreover, you erroneously believe that man has a part to play in securing that salvation, or appropriating it on his own behalf. <br>The truth of the matter, though Josh, is that the Bible teaches that God has done all of this for man. He just doesn't open up a door and leave it up for mankind to choose whether or not he wants to come through the door. The Bible speaks of an accomplished and applied salvation that was completed in Christ upon the cross to fulfill the eternal plan to save a people elected out by the father in eternity past. That is what Paul is arguing for in Ephesians 1:4-2:10. "<br><br>Ephesians says that it is God's will that the elect be saved, but many times the Bible makes it clear that God's will is not always done by men (see Luke 13:34). The Bible also speaks of us still striving towards the goal of salvation in Christ Jesus.<br><br>Philippians 3:8-11 says:<br><br>"Yea doubtless, and I count all things [but] loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord: for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and do count them [but] dung, that I may win Christ, <br> <br>And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith: <br> <br>That I may know him, and the power of his resurrection, and the fellowship of his sufferings, being made conformable unto his death; <br> <br>If by any means I might attain unto the resurrection of the dead."<br><br>So there is no contradiction in having the righteousness of Christ, and still striving to enter the narrow gate.<br><br><br>In Christ,<br>Josh<br>
