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grace2u's response to Pilgrim Unfortunately your hyper-covenantalism has led you into a number of non-biblical hypothetical constructs As one of the few Reformed Baptists upon this board I must object to your use of the term "hyper-covenantalism" in reference to either Pilgrim's or Joe's statements. While I am firmly convinced that they are in error referring to Fred Malone's view of the covenants as dispensational that doesn't mean that they are proposing a hyper-covenantal view. Typically hypercovenantalism has these views: Denying the analogy of faith, which leads to a disregard of systematic theology
Affirming that one must have the mindset of a rabbinic Jew to understand Scripture
Affirming that law and gospel are identical
Denying the covenant of works and the federal headship of Adam, including: Denying the Biblical teaching on the federal headship of Jesus Christ Denying the imputation of Christ's active obedience and righteousness to believers
Affirming that we are justified by an obedient faith, which is the same as saying faithful obedience, including: Affirming that works (obedience), with the help of the Holy Spirit (non-meritorious), are necessary for justification Affirming that in the post-Fall era, God accepts a partial sin-tainted obedience to the law instead of Christ's perfect righteousness Affirming that justification is primarily concerned with ecclesiology and not soteriology Affirming that Paul uses the term justification only to describe how the Gentile Christians are given equal status with the Jewish Christians in the covenant community Affirming that "the works of the law" refers only to the ceremonial laws-for example, circumcision and dietary laws which pertain only to the Jews Affirming that justification is solely the forgiveness of sins Affirming that justification is a process and thus denying its forensic character Affirming that a justified person can apostatize and go to hell Affirming that James 2:20-26 teaches that works are a necessary condition or instrument of justification
Denying the invisible/visible church distinction, which leads to the following: Affirming that every member of the visible church is united to Christ, regenerated, and saved. Affirming that a believer can lose his salvation
Affirming that the covenant of grace is conditional, which includes the following: Affirming that the elect can lose their salvation Affirming that obedience to the covenant determines salvation and not the predetermined election of God Affirming that Christ's death has saving benefit to the non-elect
Affirming a form of baptismal regeneration, which includes the following: Affirming that baptism with water and baptism by the Holy Spirit are inseparable Affirming that every baptized person is truly united to Christ and has all the benefits of His work Affirming that Christ's work is not sufficient to guarantee perseverance in the covenant Affirming that the sacraments are efficacious apart from faith
Denying the perseverance of the saints, which includes the following: Affirming that, by God's grace, one must maintain his elect status through obedience to the covenant Denying definitive sanctification, i.e. that Christ's redemptive work guarantees its application to the believer Affirming that one's own personal subjective righteousness is necessary for final justification Affirming that assurance is gained simply by looking to one's baptism None of which either Pilgrim or Joe have espoused in these forums. Rather the contrary is true. I myself has heard Fred Malone's teachings on covenant theology multiple times (I have his sermon series on CD) and I know his views on dispensationalism There is much controversy and ignorance over this doctrine today. Errors in this doctrine (Law and Gospel) have spawned dispensationalism, theonomy, the New Perspective on Paul, hypercovenantalism, legalism, antinomianism, shallow evangelism, shallower sanctification, worship errors and unbiblical mysticism. Law and Gospel. We as Reformed Baptists do ourselves injury to debate in an unworthy manner, especially with men who for all intents and purposes are in agreement with us save one. So I ask you, as a fellow RB, do not debate in this manner.
Peter
If you believe what you like in the gospels, and reject what you don't like, it is not the gospel you believe, but yourself. Augustine of Hippo
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Entire Thread
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Fred Malone a dispensationalist?
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Anonymous
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Sat Mar 19, 2005 2:30 PM
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Re: Fred Malone a dispensationalist?
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Tom
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Sat Mar 19, 2005 5:07 PM
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Re: Fred Malone a dispensationalist?
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Anonymous
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Sat Mar 19, 2005 5:25 PM
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Re: Fred Malone a dispensationalist?
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Tom
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Tue Mar 22, 2005 1:25 AM
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Re: Fred Malone a dispensationalist?
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Anonymous
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Tue Mar 22, 2005 11:55 PM
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Re: Fred Malone a dispensationalist?
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grace2U
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Tue Mar 29, 2005 2:06 PM
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Re: Fred Malone a dispensationalist?
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fredman
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Tue Mar 29, 2005 3:47 PM
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Re: Fred Malone a dispensationalist?
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J_Edwards
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Wed Mar 30, 2005 12:50 AM
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Re: Fred Malone a dispensationalist?
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grace2U
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Wed Mar 30, 2005 7:26 AM
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Re: Fred Malone a dispensationalist?
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Tom
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Thu Mar 31, 2005 8:08 AM
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Re: Fred Malone a dispensationalist?
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Pilgrim
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Thu Mar 31, 2005 1:21 AM
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Re: Fred Malone a dispensationalist?
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grace2U
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Thu Mar 31, 2005 5:24 PM
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Re: Fred Malone a dispensationalist?
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Pilgrim
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Thu Mar 31, 2005 7:31 PM
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Re: Fred Malone a dispensationalist?
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grace2U
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Thu Mar 31, 2005 10:07 PM
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Re: Fred Malone a dispensationalist?
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J_Edwards
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Thu Mar 31, 2005 11:24 PM
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Re: Fred Malone a dispensationalist?
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grace2U
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Fri Apr 01, 2005 12:08 AM
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Re: Fred Malone a dispensationalist?
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J_Edwards
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Fri Apr 01, 2005 6:41 PM
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Re: Fred Malone a dispensationalist?
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grace2U
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Fri Apr 01, 2005 11:15 PM
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Covenant of Redemption
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J_Edwards
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Sat Apr 02, 2005 12:07 AM
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Covenant of Redemption?
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J_Edwards
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Sun Apr 03, 2005 1:29 AM
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Re: Covenant of Redemption?
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grace2U
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Sun Apr 03, 2005 9:41 AM
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Re: Covenant of Redemption?
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J_Edwards
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Sun Apr 03, 2005 1:51 PM
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Re: Covenant of Redemption?
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grace2U
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Sun Apr 10, 2005 10:50 PM
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Re: Covenant of Redemption?
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J_Edwards
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Mon Apr 11, 2005 6:20 AM
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Re: Fred Malone a dispensationalist?
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grace2U
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Thu Mar 31, 2005 11:02 PM
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Re: Fred Malone a dispensationalist?
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Pilgrim
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Thu Mar 31, 2005 11:52 PM
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Re: Fred Malone a dispensationalist?
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grace2U
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Fri Apr 01, 2005 3:43 PM
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Re: Fred Malone a dispensationalist?
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Pilgrim
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Fri Apr 01, 2005 11:33 PM
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Re: Fred Malone a dispensationalist?
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grace2U
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Sat Apr 02, 2005 11:09 PM
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Re: Fred Malone a dispensationalist?
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Peter
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Mon Apr 04, 2005 5:08 AM
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Re: Fred Malone a dispensationalist?
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fredman
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Mon Apr 04, 2005 3:23 PM
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Re: Fred Malone a dispensationalist?
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J_Edwards
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Tue Apr 05, 2005 4:38 PM
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Re: Fred Malone a dispensationalist?
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J_Edwards
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Thu Mar 31, 2005 4:44 AM
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Re: Fred Malone a dispensationalist?
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grace2U
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Thu Mar 31, 2005 11:54 PM
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Re: Fred Malone a dispensationalist?
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J_Edwards
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Fri Apr 01, 2005 12:00 PM
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Re: Fred Malone a dispensationalist?
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grace2U
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Wed Apr 20, 2005 9:15 AM
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Re: Fred Malone a dispensationalist?
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Wes
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Wed Apr 20, 2005 7:09 PM
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Re: Fred Malone a dispensationalist?
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J_Edwards
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Wed Apr 20, 2005 11:36 PM
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Re: Fred Malone a dispensationalist?
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grace2U
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Fri Apr 22, 2005 3:36 PM
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Fred Malone a dispensationalist?
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J_Edwards
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Sat Apr 23, 2005 3:41 AM
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Re: Fred Malone a dispensationalist?
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grace2U
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Sat Apr 23, 2005 1:27 PM
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Re: Fred Malone a dispensationalist?
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grace2U
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Sat Apr 23, 2005 4:20 PM
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Re: Fred Malone a dispensationalist?
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J_Edwards
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Sat Apr 23, 2005 6:32 PM
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Re: Fred Malone a dispensationalist?
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grace2U
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Sat May 14, 2005 1:35 PM
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Re: Fred Malone a dispensationalist?
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J_Edwards
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Sat May 14, 2005 10:39 PM
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Re: Fred Malone a dispensationalist?
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J_Edwards
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Sat Apr 23, 2005 4:35 PM
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Re: Fred Malone a dispensationalist?
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grace2U
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Fri May 13, 2005 9:21 AM
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Re: Fred Malone a dispensationalist?
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J_Edwards
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Fri May 13, 2005 1:14 PM
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Re: Fred Malone a dispensationalist?
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BradJHammond
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Fri May 13, 2005 2:49 PM
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Re: Fred Malone a dispensationalist?
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J_Edwards
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Fri May 13, 2005 3:44 PM
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Re: Fred Malone a dispensationalist?
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Peter
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Sat May 14, 2005 5:24 AM
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Re: Fred Malone a dispensationalist?
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Tom
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Sun May 15, 2005 10:48 PM
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Re: Fred Malone a dispensationalist?
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grace2U
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Sun May 15, 2005 11:00 PM
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Re: Fred Malone a dispensationalist?
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Tom
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Sun May 15, 2005 11:48 PM
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Re: Fred Malone a dispensationalist?
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J_Edwards
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Mon May 16, 2005 12:20 AM
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Re: Fred Malone a dispensationalist?
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Tom
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Mon May 16, 2005 4:02 AM
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Re: Fred Malone a dispensationalist?
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Anonymous
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Sat Mar 19, 2005 9:22 PM
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Re: Fred Malone a dispensationalist?
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Tom
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Fri Mar 25, 2005 7:02 AM
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Re: Fred Malone a dispensationalist?
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fredman
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Fri Mar 25, 2005 2:35 PM
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Re: Fred Malone a dispensationalist?
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J_Edwards
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Sat Mar 26, 2005 1:48 PM
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Re: Fred Malone a dispensationalist?
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fredman
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Mon Mar 28, 2005 1:27 PM
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Re: Fred Malone a dispensationalist?
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J_Edwards
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Mon Mar 28, 2005 2:50 PM
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Re: Fred Malone a dispensationalist?
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grace2U
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Tue Mar 29, 2005 7:47 AM
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Re: Fred Malone a dispensationalist?
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sixcannons
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Thu Mar 31, 2005 1:42 AM
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Re: Fred Malone a dispensationalist?
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William
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Sun Feb 05, 2006 2:16 AM
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