Hello JE,
I thought I ought to answer some of the points you made in this part of the thread before leaving. You obligingly gave the relevant quote from Hebrews:-
Hebrews 8:10-12 'For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel After those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, And on their heart also will I write them: And I will be to them a God, And they shall be to me a people: And they shall not teach every man his fellow-citizen, And every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: For all shall know me, From the least to the greatest of them. For I will be merciful to their iniquities, And their sins will I remember no more.'
You then continued:-
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These verses have a present and future aspect to them. They have NOT been “totally” fulfilled yet.
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You state this without giving any Scriptural support. The natural reading of these verses (whether in Jeremiah or Hebrews) is that in the Old Covenant only some knew the Lord and in the NC, everybody does. What you are doing is indulging in a fine piece of eisogesis to make the Scriptures agree with your pre-suppositions. However, there are at least two NT texts that place this ‘Knowing of the Lord’ very firmly in the present:-
1John 2:20ff. ‘But you have an anointing from the Holy One, and you know all things. I have not written to you because you do not know the truth, but because you do know it………..But the anointing which you have received from Him abides in you, and you do not need that anyone teach you…….and just as it has taught you, you will abide in Him.
1Cor 2:12, 15. ‘Now we have received, not the spirit of this world, but the Spirit who is from God, that we might know the things that have been given to us freely by God……..But he who is spiritual judges all things, yet he himself is rightly judged by no one.’
Even Paedo-baptist commentators on 1John, like Candlish and Kistemaker, admit the link between 1John 2:20ff and Heb 8:10ff. Obviously, when he says, ‘You know all things’, John is not suggesting that the recipients of his letter knew quantum mechanics or the value of pi to 50 decimal places; nor was he suggesting that they were fully versed in every conceivable aspect of theology; but they knew the Lord and they knew the way of salvation, and they did not need someone to tell them anything different. John says, ‘YOU have an anointing…..’. He is assuming that every single one of the people he is writing to knows the Lord. They are the New Covenant people of God.
Just in case there is any doubt about this, the writer to the Hebrews repeats the Jeremiah quotation in10:15ff, and in verese 15 and 18, he places the quote very firmly in the present.
You Continued:-
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Additionally, we must remind ourselves that Jer 31:34 falls on the heels of Jer 31:32 which says, “It will not be like the covenant I made with their forefathers when I took them by the hand to lead them out of Egypt, because they broke my covenant …."
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Exactly so. “IT WILL NOT BE LIKE THE [OLD] COVENANT. The old covenant could be broken, the new cannot.
You added:-
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The New Covenant today is still able to be broken every time we sin.’
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WHAT!!!??? Can you not read to the end of the verse? ‘For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their lawless deeds I will remember no more.’
You mentioned Heb 10:29. ‘Of how much worse punishment, do you suppose, will he be thought worthy who has trampled the Son of God underfoot, counted the blood of the covenant by which [he] was sanctified a common thing, and insulted the Spirit of grace.’
Can apostates be said to have been ‘sanctified’? Surely not in view of Rom 11:29? Therefore the ‘he’ (‘He’) here must refer to ‘the Son of God’ (John 17:19 ). These apostates were never in the NC, whether or not they were baptized. They had, ‘neither part nor portion in this matter’ (Acts 8:21 ) and ‘were not of us’ (1John 2:19 ).
You ended:-
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I think it is best not to question God’s methodology.
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Amen! But you have not proved to me that you know what that methodology is.
In your most recent post, you wrote:-
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You prove that this change in covenant relationship happened where in Scripture? Acts 2:41 does not do it!
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Your link has reminded me that I owe Pilgrim a post. I had forgotten.
However, in answer to you, let me pose you a question in return: since Pentecost was a Jewish festival,and since only Jews were allowed into most of the Temple area (Acts 21:28 ), it seems to be reasonable to suppose that most if not all of the ‘multiude’ (Acts 2:5-6 ) to whom Paul spoke on the Day of Pentecost were circumcised Jews. If there is only one covenant and if these men had already received one covenant sign, why did Paul command them to receive another? And why did they obey him without demur?
My positively last performance here. Time for that cup o' Joe <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/coffee2.gif" alt="" />
Every blessing, <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/bravo.gif" alt="" />
Steve
