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J_Edwards said:
Many of the Corinthians were pagans (1 Cor 12:3). Many in the visible church are pagans (Matt 7:21-23). Many in Pentecostal churches are pagans. Many Charismatics are pagans. According to your definition only those that are truly saved and are endowed with supernatural gifts are truly Charismatic. Thus, why do YOU and others use the Charismatic description for everyone in your movement? Is this not a false use of charis by YOUR definition? <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/scratch1.gif" alt="" />

You'll notice I used a Capital 'C' to refer to the movement, and in other cases I used quotes or parentheses when using the term in a non-theological sense. If someone were loose with the the words 'grace' or 'soteriological' you might point it out.

By the way, I never said that only those who were truly saved could exercise charismata. I never said that only those who are truly saved could partake of grace. I recall your namesake (Jonathan Edwards) seemed to assume this by the way he used the word 'grace' saying that Saul's repentance was not 'truly gracious.' While the 'truly saved' are saved by grace, I am not persuaded that unbelievers cannot experience some measure of charis, particularly in the case of those who fall away.

And how would we label pre-Pentecost manifestations of gifts with New Testament terminology. Were Saul's, Balaam's, and Caiaphas' genuine prophecies from grace or not? Were they 'charismata'?

You are making assumptions about my beliefs. I never told you that only the truly saved can exercise charismata. If Satan cannot cast out Satan, and the wicked in Matthew 7 really did cast out demons as they claimed, they may have done it by the power of God. If Caiaphas could prophesy, maybe they really did prophesy true prophecies. Of course, Jesus turns them away, not for their miracles, but because He never knew them, and they were workers of iniquity.

Nevertheless, I see your point that my own terminology can be confusing. I am not a perfect speller, so I'd like to leave some room for myself to leave out a capital without you pointing out.

[quote]By YOUR definition, YOU are misusing the term yourself since: (1) you do not know who the saved are, (2) you cannot prove who the saved are, (3) you can not prove that the gifts being employed are not from the devil himself. Shame on you for associating charis with all these unregenerates. Charismatic does not have very positive connotations if YOU are using it of pagans!
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I tend to use 'Charismatic' to refer to the movement and 'charismatic' to refer to the adjective. But, like I said, I am not a perfect speller, especially in a forum like this.