The Highway Forums General Discussion Theology Discussion Forum true calvinism.......MJM please read

I agree that the jailor was "unsaved" (i.e., justified) at the point of verse 30, but he was at that point regenerated, i.e., the new birth had already taken place. The Holy Spirit works in, through and in conjunction with the preaching/reading of the Word of God, which we know from the text was that which Paul spoke to the jailor. You then ask: What if the jailor had not followed their advice, what if he chose not to beleive? This question is akin to asking, "What if God was not holy?" The answer is, of course, then he would not be God. If the jailor had not followed the advice given, then he would surely not have been saved (i.e., justified), but since the inspired text says he DID repent and believe upon Christ, then there is no possibility that he wouldn't have done so. Why? Because of the very fact that he believed on Christ shows that the Holy Spirit had done that radical transformation of his soul (new birth/regeneration/made alive/born again), which of necessity terminates in repentance and faith in Christ. As a newborn "naturally" and infallibly begins to breath; inhale and exhale air, so likewise one who is spiritually reborn begins to "breath"; inhales spiritual things and exhales the fruit of spiritual life; aka: repentance (putting off sin and resolving to walk in righteousness) and faith (a love for God and a trusting in the person of Christ and His substitutionary work.) If there are no signs of physical life with physical birth, then the child is pronounced dead. Likewise, if there are no signs of spiritual life, then the person is undoubtedly dead.

First, a correction of your use of terms is indicated. "Conversion" is decidedly a different thing than "the new birth". Let's define "the new birth" before "conversion" because it precedes it. The "new birth" in Scripture has many corollaries, e.g., "born again", "regeneration", "made alive", "resurrection", et al. This is the sole, sovereign and secret work of the Holy Spirit whereby He restores the spiritual essence of the soul. A new "nature"; i.e., disposition/inclination is formed within the person so that where there was once a natural hatred for God and an aversion to all that is good, this new nature has an insatiable love for God, desire for holiness and a hatred of sin, albeit these things exist initially in principle and grow throughout the person's life, aka: sanctification. The "new birth" is not something which a sinner experiences; i.e., he/she is totally unaware of its creation at the time it occurs. (cf. Jh 3:8)

Now, as to "conversion", this is where the "fruit/result" of regeneration occurs, wherein the sinner comes under conviction of sin, repents and turns to Christ in faith, at which time he/she is "justified" before God. In conversion, the person experiences these things since they are part of the event. So, conversion follows regeneration and is the natural and infallible result of it.
When does conversion occur in your theology?

If by "what" you mean to ask, what circumstances surround one being converted, the answer is that generally, it is in the context of the preaching/reading of the Word of God. More specifically, the Holy Spirit attends the proclaiming of the Gospel, regenerating those whose time it is to be saved, according to the secret council of God. Neither the one speaking the Gospel nor the hearer have any prior knowledge of the Spirit's work as explained above; i.e., it is a secret work as it is a sovereign work, according to His will.

If you are understanding Calvinism to teach that salvation occurs without any involvement of an individual, then unfortunately, you have misunderstood this. As explained above, man has no part whatsoever in his "regeneration". And, although conversion is the natural and infallible result of regeneration, there is indeed an actual inclusion of the person in it, i.e., it is really the person who repents and believes. Perhaps I should have dealt with defining this term, "salvation" before now, but I'll do so now. This word "salvation/saved" is a very comprehensive word, which can refer to the totality of a person being brought into a new and eternal relationship with the living God, e.g., beginning with God's eternal decree, predestination, election, regeneration, conversion, sanctification, and final glorification> It also can mean specific elements of that "Golden Chain" (cf. Rom 8:29, 30), e.g., "saved" is sometimes synonymous with "justified", i.e., that moment in time when a sinner repents and believes upon Christ and God then pronounces that person "not guilty", imputing Christ's righteousness to his/her account. (cf. Rom 4:3; Gal 3:6; Jam 2:23).

No one who has been regenerated can or will "pass up the opportunity", for they are "made willing", i.e., the new nature of necessity reaches out to Christ, as this is it's intended purpose. The unregenerate, by nature, refuse to believe (cf. Jh 10:26; Acts 7:51). The regenerate always and immediately believe on Christ (cf. 6:37, 45, 65; 10:27; Acts 2:37, 41; 13:48; 16:14).

As others have already pointed out, such statements are contradictory in that you cannot be "dead" and even hope to "see the kingdom of God", for the preaching of the cross is foolishness and something which is hated (cf. Jh 1:12, 13; 3:19; Rom 8:7, 8; 1Cor 2:14; Eph 4:17-19; 1Pet 2:7, 8; et al). Further, Paul says that "while ye were dead, God made you alive . . ." (Eph 2:1, 5). Using the raising of Lazarus from the dead as an illustration of what happens spiritually when one is "made alive, aka: regenerated", we see nothing of a semi-alive state after Jesus calls him forth from the grave. The biblical record says that Lazarus was 4 days in the tomb and thus there is no possible denying that he was really dead; in fact his body in all likelihood had begun to decompose. When Jesus said, "Lazarus, come forth!", Lazarus didn't take on a state of being between being dead and being alive and in that state choose to live and consequently received a "full" condition of life. Man is either spiritually dead or he is spiritually alive. A sinner never chooses to be alive; he is MADE alive by the Holy Spirit (regenerated/born from above) and as a result he/she believes upon Christ unto salvation.

Yes, the jailor was numbered with the elect from all eternity by God's secret determinative council. And yes, no one, including the jailor was privy to what God had decreed. (cf. Acts 18:9, 10) But even though the jailor was one of the elect, he was not "predisposed to believe", for there is no difference in this regard as to a sinner's natural condition. ALL are born in sin and have no interest in Christ whatsoever. Their natural inclination is toward sin, and that only. (cf. Eph 2:2-4; Rom 3:10-18)

What we see in this passage is the response of the outward call of the Gospel, i.e., the necessity of all men to repent of their sins and to believe upon Christ unto salvation. There is no implication that man is "naturally" capable of heeding that call. It is simply a statement of what all men are responsible to do should they desire salvation. Only those who have been given the desire (regenerated) have any interest in being saved. (cf. Matt 11:25-28; Jh 6:44; et al)

In His Grace,