Speratus, your PM (07/10/05 at 06:08 am) to me stated,
If you have read my Wednesday response to your Tuesday post, please ignore this message. There is a software glitch that prevents my post from registering on the Theology Forum page. I have reported the problem to the moderator.
Pilgrim was probably testing some new
Anti-Heresy Software and thus your post would not work. Apparently, now he has removed it. <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/evilgrin.gif" alt="" />
But, according to your logic that would also violate grace ALONE, i.e., grace + faith.
Baptism is
not added to grace, but an
identification of a covenantal relationship. As limiting as illustrations are: Like a Folger's label to a can of coffee. The label adds nothing to the can (one is paper, the other steel, plastic, etc.) or coffee, but it does identify the item as a coffee can. Baptism (the label) is a sign and seal of a specific kind of relationship (a covenantal can). The contents of the can (which are placed in the can when the Maker sees fit) may be later identified as caffeinated (effectual) or decaffeinated (non-effectual). Baptism (the label) DOES NOT SAVE in ANY form, it is simply a sign and seal of the covenant. Important, yes, essential, no (for the saved there would still be a can of coffee, w/o a label).
Get rid of your
Juan Valdez religion (i.e.
man-made works righteous religion). Repent and come to the knowledge of the truth, “if God permit.” You have percolated under water (been subjected to false teaching) too long. You make the LABEL more important than the coffee itself.
Get rid of your decaffeinated philosophy and drink some caffeinated Gospel. Good to the last drop and beyond. <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/coffee2.gif" alt="" />
In reference to Mark 16:16 you state,
Why do you say Mark 16:16 is for adults only when the preceding verse says we are to preach to all creatures? God's command to preach and baptize applies to infants as the text clearly teaches.
Speratus, does
all always mean “each and every” creature or can it have different meanings? Do you need examples of its different meanings (Matt 2:3; 4:23-24; 10:22, etc.)?
Can babies
believe the Word of God? What does “googoo gaagaa” mean? How do you prove a baby can believe (which must be possible, if as “you” say, they can understand the preached word, otherwise why preach to them …)? What examples (from the Bible) can you give us of babies that cast out demons and that healed the sick (Mark 16:17,
the verse after 16:16. <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/spin.gif" alt="" />), etc.—for these signs will follow them that believe?
Infants should be baptized in obedience to the covenantal stipulations apparent in the continuity of the Covenant(s),
not because they have had the Gospel preached to them, understood it, and believed.
The thief was denied baptism by the Roman soldiers just as believing and regenerate infants are denied emergency baptism by theologically-impaired Calvinists and Baptists.
So according to “you,” Baptism is
absolutely necessary to salvation, but the Roman soldiers had more authority then Jesus and kept Him from saving whom He willed (John 6:39)? According to you Jesus is a liar, because He told the thief, “Today you shall be with me….”, but Jesus was unable to baptize him and thus, the thief went to hell (because, according to you, baptism is necessary to salvation)!
Speratus, either Jesus is not LORD or baptism is NOT absolutely necessary to salvation! <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/idea.gif" alt="" /> Please look again at your arguments, they are without defense.
There is no clear command to baptize the dead. I would not break one command (Thou shalt not kill) to obey another.
Once again, you misunderstood the question. Please re-read it!
I said, “a dying (not dead) fetus”? The fetus, which is alive, which is human, and to which you have “claimed” it is
absolutely necessary to be baptized to be saved? This is the fetus I speak of: Would you put the mother’s life at risk to baptize this human life so it can be saved or do you damn this baby to hell? Will Speratus practice what he preaches? Which do you hate most Speratus, mothers or infants? <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/shrug.gif" alt="" />
Your philosophy would not only make you a heretic, but "if" logically carried out a murderer. Your logic is consistent with John 8:44. Is this where you really want to be?
<img src="/forum/images/graemlins/igiveup.gif" alt="" />
