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#26320
Tue Jul 19, 2005 8:20 AM
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Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 2,615
Needs to get a Life
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Needs to get a Life
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 2,615 |
I take it your definition of "grace" is not unmerited favor but favor granted because of obediance to His covenant? How is the merit associated with the administration of baptism (e.g., sprinkling, etc.) transferred to the person being baptized? Does an infant also perform a meritorious work by submitting to baptism? Speratus, grace is “unmerited favor” (an adequate definition for our use here). However, Scripture teaches that God commonly works through the means He has appointed in Scripture (i.e. baptism, the Lord’s Supper, prayer, faith, the preaching of the Word, etc.). Baptism, is a means of grace, but it does not convey the grace by its outward application. However, God uses the sacrament, when rightly applied and received, as a means by which He dispenses His grace to the recipient. There is a sacramental union between the sign and the thing signified. It is a covenantal relationship. The words describing the thing signified may be applied to the sign and that which the words represent is certified by the seal. This means there is real promise (covenantal) attached to the right administration and reception of the sacraments, but the effect is from God. It is not inherent in the actions or elements of the sacraments. Baptism as an act does not remove sin or convey salvation. (paraphrased from Burridge). Your view of baptism is most closely akin to Sacerdotalism. This is the view of the RCC. They expand the capacity of the sacraments to include the actual conveying of the blessing signified. The seal develops into not only a certification, but an actual imparting of the things being sealed. In his systematic, C. Hodge explains, According to the Romanists, therefore, a sacrament is a divine ordinance which has the inherent or intrinsic power of conferring the grace which it signifies. For a more lengthy discussion of the error of Sacerdotalism, see B. B. Warfield's The Plan of Salvation. Does man sin in all his works? If so, does not man's work of baptism increase his condemnation under the law? And, if baptism only increases man's condemnation, how can baptism be saving under any definition? Man’s condemnation is increased if he receives baptism “improperly.” As Calvin states, “What is a sacrament received apart from faith but the most certain ruin of the church? For nothing ought to be expected from it apart from the promise, but the promise no less threatens wrath to unbelievers than offers grace to believers” (Inst. 4.14.14). However, baptism is NOT saving! As Calvin again states, “We must utterly reject the fiction of those who consign all the unbaptized to eternal death… Baptism is not so necessary that one from whom the capacity to obtain it has been taken away should straightway be counted as lost” (Inst. 4.16.26).
Reformed and Always Reforming,
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Entire Thread
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"We sometimes allow children to die unbaptized. ."
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Anonymous
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Sat Jul 02, 2005 11:25 AM
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Re: "We sometimes allow children to die unbaptized. ."
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Wes
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Sat Jul 02, 2005 1:43 PM
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Re: "We sometimes allow children to die unbaptized
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MarieP
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Sun Jul 03, 2005 3:05 AM
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Re: "We sometimes allow children to die unbaptized
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Wes
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Sun Jul 03, 2005 3:38 PM
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Re: "We sometimes allow children to die unbaptized
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Peter
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Sun Jul 03, 2005 5:01 AM
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Re: "We sometimes allow children to die unbaptized
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Anonymous
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Sun Jul 03, 2005 11:44 AM
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Re: "We sometimes allow children to die unbaptized
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J_Edwards
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Sun Jul 03, 2005 1:51 PM
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Re: "We sometimes allow children to die unbaptized
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Anonymous
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Sun Jul 03, 2005 6:29 PM
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Re: "We sometimes allow children to die unbaptized
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J_Edwards
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Sun Jul 03, 2005 1:40 PM
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Re: "We sometimes allow children to die unbaptized
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Peter
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Mon Jul 04, 2005 4:03 PM
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Re: "We sometimes allow children to die unbaptized
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J_Edwards
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Tue Jul 05, 2005 1:17 AM
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Re: "We sometimes allow children to die unbaptized
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Peter
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Wed Jul 06, 2005 2:34 AM
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Re: "We sometimes allow children to die unbaptized
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J_Edwards
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Wed Jul 06, 2005 2:46 AM
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Re: "We sometimes allow children to die unbaptized. ."
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Anonymous
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Sun Jul 03, 2005 11:23 AM
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J_Edwards
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Sun Jul 03, 2005 2:40 PM
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Anonymous
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Tue Jul 05, 2005 11:12 PM
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Re: "We sometimes allow children to die unbaptized. ."
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J_Edwards
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Tue Jul 05, 2005 11:56 PM
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Re: "We sometimes allow children to die unbaptized. ."
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Anonymous
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Wed Jul 06, 2005 6:39 PM
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Re: "We sometimes allow children to die unbaptized. ."
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J_Edwards
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Mon Jul 11, 2005 2:48 PM
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Re: "We sometimes allow children to die unbaptized. ."
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Anonymous
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Tue Jul 12, 2005 9:43 AM
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Re: "We sometimes allow children to die unbaptized
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MarieP
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Tue Jul 12, 2005 12:42 PM
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Re: "We sometimes allow children to die unbaptized
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Anonymous
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Tue Jul 12, 2005 1:21 PM
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Re: "We sometimes allow children to die unbaptized. ."
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J_Edwards
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Tue Jul 12, 2005 4:44 PM
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Re: "We sometimes allow children to die unbaptized. ."
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Anonymous
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Thu Jul 14, 2005 2:49 PM
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Re: "We sometimes allow children to die unbaptized. ."
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Pilgrim
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Thu Jul 14, 2005 3:47 PM
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Re: "We sometimes allow children to die unbaptized. ."
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Anonymous
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Fri Jul 15, 2005 2:17 AM
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Re: "We sometimes allow children to die unbaptized. ."
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Pilgrim
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Fri Jul 15, 2005 3:18 AM
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Re: "We sometimes allow children to die unbaptized. ."
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Anonymous
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Fri Jul 15, 2005 1:08 PM
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Re: "We sometimes allow children to die unbaptized. ."
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J_Edwards
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Sat Jul 16, 2005 7:52 PM
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Re: "We sometimes allow children to die unbaptized. ."
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Anonymous
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Sun Jul 17, 2005 2:01 AM
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Re: "We sometimes allow children to die unbaptized. ."
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J_Edwards
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Sun Jul 17, 2005 2:47 AM
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Re: "We sometimes allow children to die unbaptized. ."
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Anonymous
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Sun Jul 17, 2005 12:02 PM
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Re: "We sometimes allow children to die unbaptized. ."
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J_Edwards
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Sun Jul 17, 2005 4:46 PM
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Re: "We sometimes allow children to die unbaptized. ."
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Anonymous
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Mon Jul 18, 2005 4:58 AM
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Re: "We sometimes allow children to die unbaptized. ."
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J_Edwards
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Mon Jul 18, 2005 1:45 PM
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Re: "We sometimes allow children to die unbaptized. ."
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Anonymous
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Tue Jul 19, 2005 3:56 AM
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Re: "We sometimes allow children to die unbaptized. ."
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J_Edwards
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Tue Jul 19, 2005 12:20 PM
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Anonymous
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Wed Jul 20, 2005 10:58 AM
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J_Edwards
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Wed Jul 20, 2005 12:15 PM
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Anonymous
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Wed Jul 20, 2005 3:20 PM
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J_Edwards
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Wed Jul 20, 2005 5:01 PM
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Re: "We sometimes allow children to die unbaptized. ."
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Anonymous
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Thu Jul 21, 2005 3:38 AM
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Re: "We sometimes allow children to die unbaptized. ."
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J_Edwards
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Thu Jul 21, 2005 11:50 AM
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Re: "We sometimes allow children to die unbaptized. ."
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Anonymous
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Fri Jul 22, 2005 10:11 AM
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Re: "We sometimes allow children to die unbaptized. ."
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J_Edwards
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Fri Jul 22, 2005 11:21 AM
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Re: "We sometimes allow children to die unbaptized. ."
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Anonymous
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Sun Jul 24, 2005 11:11 AM
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Re: "We sometimes allow children to die unbaptized. ."
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J_Edwards
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Sun Jul 24, 2005 11:45 AM
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Re: "We sometimes allow children to die unbaptized. ."
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Anonymous
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Mon Jul 25, 2005 11:04 AM
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Re: "We sometimes allow children to die unbaptized. ."
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Anonymous
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Tue Jul 26, 2005 10:47 AM
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Re: "We sometimes allow children to die unbaptized. ."
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Pilgrim
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Sun Jul 03, 2005 4:17 PM
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Re: "We sometimes allow children to die unbaptized. ."
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Anonymous
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Sun Jul 03, 2005 10:19 PM
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Re: "We sometimes allow children to die unbaptized. ."
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Pilgrim
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Sun Jul 03, 2005 11:17 PM
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Re: "We sometimes allow children to die unbaptized. ."
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guidedbygrace
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Fri Jul 29, 2005 6:35 PM
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Peter
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Sat Jul 30, 2005 5:40 AM
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Re: "We sometimes allow children to die unbaptized
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MarieP
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Sat Jul 30, 2005 2:03 PM
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Re: "We sometimes allow children to die unbaptized
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Pilgrim
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Sat Jul 30, 2005 5:35 PM
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guidedbygrace
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Sat Jul 30, 2005 4:22 PM
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Peter
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Sun Jul 31, 2005 9:13 PM
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guidedbygrace
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Sun Jul 31, 2005 9:26 PM
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Pilgrim
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Sun Jul 31, 2005 9:53 PM
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guidedbygrace
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Sun Jul 31, 2005 10:42 PM
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Anonymous
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Wed Aug 03, 2005 2:47 PM
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Re: "We sometimes allow children to die unbaptized
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Pilgrim
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Wed Aug 03, 2005 3:01 PM
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Re: "We sometimes allow children to die unbaptized
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Anonymous
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Wed Aug 03, 2005 7:48 PM
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Re: "We sometimes allow children to die unbaptized
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Peter
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Thu Aug 04, 2005 4:13 AM
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Re: "We sometimes allow children to die unbaptized
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Anonymous
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Thu Aug 04, 2005 8:01 AM
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Re: "We sometimes allow children to die unbaptized
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Peter
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Fri Aug 05, 2005 4:42 AM
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Re: "We sometimes allow children to die unbaptized
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Anonymous
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Fri Aug 05, 2005 11:51 AM
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Re: "We sometimes allow children to die unbaptized
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Anonymous
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Sat Aug 13, 2005 10:02 AM
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Re: "We sometimes allow children to die unbaptized
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Peter
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Sat Aug 13, 2005 3:12 PM
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Re: "We sometimes allow children to die unbaptized
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Anonymous
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Mon Aug 15, 2005 6:19 PM
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Re: "We sometimes allow children to die unbaptized
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J_Edwards
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Mon Aug 15, 2005 2:12 PM
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Re: "We sometimes allow children to die unbaptized
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Anonymous
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Tue Aug 16, 2005 1:41 AM
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Re: "We sometimes allow children to die unbaptized
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J_Edwards
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Tue Aug 16, 2005 11:57 AM
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Re: "We sometimes allow children to die unbaptized
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Anonymous
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Wed Aug 17, 2005 5:08 AM
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Re: "We sometimes allow children to die unbaptized
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J_Edwards
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Wed Aug 17, 2005 2:08 PM
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Re: "We sometimes allow children to die unbaptized
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Anonymous
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Fri Aug 19, 2005 1:31 PM
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Re: "We sometimes allow children to die unbaptized
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J_Edwards
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Fri Aug 19, 2005 2:03 PM
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Re: "We sometimes allow children to die unbaptized
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Anonymous
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Sun Aug 21, 2005 4:42 AM
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Re: "We sometimes allow children to die unbaptized
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J_Edwards
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Sun Aug 21, 2005 2:47 PM
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Re: "We sometimes allow children to die unbaptized
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Anonymous
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Mon Aug 22, 2005 11:04 AM
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J_Edwards
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Mon Aug 22, 2005 11:57 AM
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Re: "We sometimes allow children to die unbaptized
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Anonymous
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Tue Aug 23, 2005 2:14 AM
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Re: "We sometimes allow children to die unbaptized
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J_Edwards
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Tue Aug 23, 2005 2:30 PM
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Re: "We sometimes allow children to die unbaptized
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Anonymous
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Fri Aug 26, 2005 2:18 AM
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Re: "We sometimes allow children to die unbaptized
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J_Edwards
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Fri Aug 26, 2005 12:26 PM
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Re: "We sometimes allow children to die unbaptized
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Pilgrim
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Fri Aug 26, 2005 6:04 PM
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Re: "We sometimes allow children to die unbaptized
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Anonymous
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Sun Aug 28, 2005 10:08 AM
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Re: "We sometimes allow children to die unbaptized
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Pilgrim
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Sun Aug 28, 2005 12:41 PM
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Re: "We sometimes allow children to die unbaptized
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Anonymous
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Tue Aug 30, 2005 6:47 PM
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Re: "We sometimes allow children to die unbaptized
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Pilgrim
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Tue Aug 30, 2005 7:46 PM
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Re: "We sometimes allow children to die unbaptized
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Pilgrim
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Fri Aug 19, 2005 4:19 PM
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Re: "We sometimes allow children to die unbaptized
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Anonymous
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Sun Aug 21, 2005 5:06 AM
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Re: "We sometimes allow children to die unbaptized
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Pilgrim
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Sun Aug 21, 2005 5:41 AM
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Re: "We sometimes allow children to die unbaptized
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Anonymous
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Sun Aug 21, 2005 11:09 AM
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Re: "We sometimes allow children to die unbaptized
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Pilgrim
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Sun Aug 21, 2005 2:38 PM
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Re: "We sometimes allow children to die unbaptized
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Anonymous
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Mon Aug 22, 2005 9:49 AM
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Re: "We sometimes allow children to die unbaptized
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Anonymous
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Sat Sep 17, 2005 4:58 AM
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Re: "We sometimes allow children to die unbaptized
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Pilgrim
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Sat Sep 17, 2005 5:08 PM
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Re: "We sometimes allow children to die unbaptized
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Anonymous
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Sun Sep 18, 2005 11:51 AM
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Re: "We sometimes allow children to die unbaptized
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Pilgrim
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Sun Sep 18, 2005 5:25 PM
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Re: "We sometimes allow children to die unbaptized
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Anonymous
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Mon Sep 19, 2005 3:16 AM
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Re: "We sometimes allow children to die unbaptized
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Pilgrim
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Mon Sep 19, 2005 5:41 PM
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Re: "We sometimes allow children to die unbaptized
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Paul_S
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Mon Sep 19, 2005 2:16 AM
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Anonymous
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Tue Sep 20, 2005 10:20 AM
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Re: "We sometimes allow children to die unbaptized
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Pilgrim
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Tue Sep 20, 2005 4:27 PM
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Re: "We sometimes allow children to die unbaptized
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Anonymous
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Wed Sep 21, 2005 12:00 PM
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Re: "We sometimes allow children to die unbaptized. ."
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J_Edwards
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Sat Jul 02, 2005 2:45 PM
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