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Joe k said:
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beloved57 said:
i`m sorry you lost me. i just wrote that paul wrote to those who had believed the gospel. evidently he knew of philemon's faith in the lord jesus christ. vs 5 Hearing of thy love and faith, which thou hast toward the Lord Jesus, and toward all saints;

paul says the same thing to the romans look at romans 1: 8

First, I thank my God through Jesus Christ for you all, that your faith is spoken of throughout the whole world.

Joe, your reference to philemon only proves my premise that he evidently heard the gospel preached and had faith.. <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/bananas.gif" alt="" />

It is amazing how you can deduce such things from whatever you want. Faith in the Lord Jesus does not automatically equal understanding limited atonement. OF which the word does not do justice to His definite atonement. The Gospel is much more than what you claim it is. When Paul stated the Gospel was preached to Abraham, where is his understanding of limited atonement? You have dug yourself into a corner Darryl. You need a wider view of God. The Atonement is limited, but God is not. Paul greeted all in his letters like that. Again, no limited atonement in Titus, Philemon, and not present everytime he spoke.

I am sad that you have concluded thus in all the written word. IT is not yours to do that to, it is God's

Joe, it`s not really hard to understand ! By faith we understand. It`s a matter of the Holy Spirit enabling the regenerated Elect sinner, to Trust in what Christ did for His people ! It`s really quite simple . The elect sinner who has been made acutely aware of their sinfulness , hears the good news as to what christ has accomplished on the the cross for the sins of his people or chosen ones. By a person hearing that message, he is brought to realize, that it`s not what he can do to be saved , but his only hope is that he is the recipent of Gods sovereign particular love, much like the publican, who said lord be propitiated to me a sinner. Even those during the old test times, who were not Jews, but elect, were brought to believe in a covenant God for a particular people. Look at ruth 1: 16 But Ruth replied, "Don't urge me to leave you or to turn back from you. Where you go I will go, and where you stay I will stay. Your people will be my people and your God my God.

ruth by her being a elect , was brought to realize that only the God Of Israel ( The God who only Loved a special people) was the true and living God. Rahab is another, who came to believe in The God who had only elected a certain people. If you know your bible the way you claim, you should see this. Job is another , He came to believe in the God of Israel, thats how he knew about the sacrifices and was enabled to utter the monumental words that I know my redeemer Liveth ! Jesus when speaking to a women matt 15: 24

24But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

Jesus implied by this that his mission is not to seek all mens salvation,but only the lost sheep, the elect, the chosen. And you see what happens when we preach the truth, this women expressed faith in the messiah in spite of his limited mission only to save some. Now as to abraham believing in a limited atonement , you will not see it, because you are blind to the truth, but here is a verse that proves what I am saying about abraham believing in a special limited atonement as it pertained to christ and what he would accomplish gal 3 : 16

Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.