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Joe k said:
I know the problem I am having. I do not understand fully volition vs desire. Perhaps becasue I do nto subscribe to the school that says God has 2 wills.

No, Joe, that has nothing to do with what I'm saying. I'm not saying that man has two wills, I'm saying the word "will" in English is ambiguous and can be used to describe "volition" or "desire." Volition is the power of choosing.

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As an aside, why does the Holy Spirit have to use means? Can He just not supernaturally casue something? Scripture says yes, but I constantly see secondary causes, circumstances put in the mix. I am not denying these are used at times, but not always.

I didn't say secondary means were necessarily used.

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Moses didnt want to lead Israel. Argued with God. his desire was not to be the sapokesman. Yet he ended up going to pharoah.

Moses wasn't forced to go to Pharaoh against his own power to choose. It may not have been his first desire, but he did act and go to Pharaoh.

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I just see no problem with saying God can and does at times violate(to use your term) mans will or volition. What harm would it casue?

The problem, especially with regards to the reprobate, is that men cannot be held accountable for things which they have no ability to choose. So if God were to force a man to murder another person, against the man's will, then how can that man be held accountable when he did not make the choice?

Last edited by CovenantInBlood; Mon Aug 06, 2007 4:55 PM.
Kyle

I tell you, this man went down to his house justified.