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#26322
Wed Jul 20, 2005 8:15 AM
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Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 2,615
Needs to get a Life
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Needs to get a Life
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 2,615 |
Speratus suggests,
Is Warfield seriously suggesting the unregenerate sinner can approach God without being called through the ministry of the Word? Warfield in his VERY first sentence says, “IT IS THE consistent testimony of the universal Church that salvation is from God, and from God alone.” Your answer rests in your misapplication of “the Word” in regeneration. Warfield stated; The central evil of sacerdotalism is therefore present in this scheme in its full manifestation, and wherever it is fully operative we find men exalting the means of grace and more or less forgetting the true agent of all gracious operations, the Holy Spirit himself, in their absorption with the instrumentalities through which alone he is supposed to work.
There are three aspects of the working of the sacerdotal system which must be kept clearly in view, if we wish to appraise with any accuracy the injury to the religious interests which it inevitably works.
In the first place, the sacerdotal system separates the soul from direct contact with and immediate dependence upon God the Holy Spirit as the source of all its gracious activities. It interposes between the soul and the source of all grace a body of instrumentalities, on which it tempts it to depend; and it thus betrays the soul into a mechanical conception of salvation.
In the second place, sacerdotalism deals with God the Holy Spirit, the source of all grace, in utter neglect of his personality, as if he were a natural force, operating, not when and where and how he pleases, but uniformly and regularly wherever his activities are released.
And this obviously involves, in the third place, the subjection of the Holy Spirit in his gracious operations to the control of men. Instead of the Church and the sacraments, the means of grace, being conceived, as they are represented in the Scriptures, and as they must be thought of in all healthful religious conceptions of them, as instrumentalities which the Holy Spirit uses in working salvation, the Holy Spirit is made an instrument which the Church, the means of grace, use in working salvation. His statement is proven, not disproved by the Augsburg Confession when we read such things as; Article V: That we may obtain this faith, the Ministry of Teaching the Gospel and administering the Sacraments was instituted. For through the Word and Sacraments, as through instruments, the Holy Ghost is given, who works faith; where and when it pleases God, in them that hear the Gospel, to wit, that God, not for our own merits, but for Christ's sake, justifies those who believe that they are received into grace for Christ's sake. And as if that was not enough, we read in, The Small Catechism of Martin Luther; Q. What does Baptism give? What good is it?
A. It gives the forgiveness of sins, redeems from death and the Devil, gives eternal salvation to all who believe this, just as God's words and promises declare.
Q. How can water do such great things?
A. Water doesn't make these things happen, of course. It is God's Word, which is with and in the water. Because, without God's Word, the water is plain water and not baptism. But with God's Word it is a Baptism, a grace-filled water of life, a bath of new birth in the Holy Spirit ,.. It is simply salvation by works—the works of man, not God, though done in God’s name! VERY much like the false, “Name It, Claim It, Frame It,” doctrine of many, the Lutheran Church has the, “Baptize It, Utilize It, Exercise It,” doctrine of the church. That is when Lutherans “baptize,” they believe they “utilize” the Holy Spirit (an instrument of their cause), and thereby “exercise” out sin and redeem the sinner from the Devil, which gives eternal salvation. God becomes a manipulated secondary cause of salvation and not the primary cause! This is not salvation by grace alone! Thus, once again, I must make a plea for your soul Speratus, for your salvation is resting in the works of men and your Church and not in the very person of Jesus Christ alone!
Reformed and Always Reforming,
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Entire Thread
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"We sometimes allow children to die unbaptized. ."
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Anonymous
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Sat Jul 02, 2005 11:25 AM
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Re: "We sometimes allow children to die unbaptized. ."
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Wes
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Sat Jul 02, 2005 1:43 PM
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MarieP
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Sun Jul 03, 2005 3:05 AM
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Wes
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Sun Jul 03, 2005 3:38 PM
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Peter
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Sun Jul 03, 2005 5:01 AM
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Anonymous
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Sun Jul 03, 2005 11:44 AM
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J_Edwards
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Sun Jul 03, 2005 1:51 PM
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Anonymous
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Sun Jul 03, 2005 6:29 PM
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J_Edwards
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Sun Jul 03, 2005 1:40 PM
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Peter
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Mon Jul 04, 2005 4:03 PM
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J_Edwards
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Tue Jul 05, 2005 1:17 AM
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Peter
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Wed Jul 06, 2005 2:34 AM
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J_Edwards
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Wed Jul 06, 2005 2:46 AM
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Anonymous
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Sun Jul 03, 2005 11:23 AM
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J_Edwards
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Sun Jul 03, 2005 2:40 PM
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Anonymous
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Tue Jul 05, 2005 11:12 PM
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J_Edwards
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Tue Jul 05, 2005 11:56 PM
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Anonymous
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Wed Jul 06, 2005 6:39 PM
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J_Edwards
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Mon Jul 11, 2005 2:48 PM
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Anonymous
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Tue Jul 12, 2005 9:43 AM
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MarieP
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Tue Jul 12, 2005 12:42 PM
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Anonymous
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Tue Jul 12, 2005 1:21 PM
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J_Edwards
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Tue Jul 12, 2005 4:44 PM
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Anonymous
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Thu Jul 14, 2005 2:49 PM
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Pilgrim
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Thu Jul 14, 2005 3:47 PM
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Anonymous
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Fri Jul 15, 2005 2:17 AM
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Pilgrim
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Fri Jul 15, 2005 3:18 AM
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Anonymous
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Fri Jul 15, 2005 1:08 PM
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J_Edwards
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Sat Jul 16, 2005 7:52 PM
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Anonymous
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Sun Jul 17, 2005 2:01 AM
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J_Edwards
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Sun Jul 17, 2005 2:47 AM
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Anonymous
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Sun Jul 17, 2005 12:02 PM
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J_Edwards
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Sun Jul 17, 2005 4:46 PM
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Anonymous
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Mon Jul 18, 2005 4:58 AM
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J_Edwards
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Mon Jul 18, 2005 1:45 PM
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Anonymous
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Tue Jul 19, 2005 3:56 AM
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J_Edwards
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Tue Jul 19, 2005 12:20 PM
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Anonymous
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Wed Jul 20, 2005 10:58 AM
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J_Edwards
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Wed Jul 20, 2005 12:15 PM
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Anonymous
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Wed Jul 20, 2005 3:20 PM
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J_Edwards
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Wed Jul 20, 2005 5:01 PM
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Anonymous
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Thu Jul 21, 2005 3:38 AM
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J_Edwards
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Thu Jul 21, 2005 11:50 AM
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Anonymous
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Fri Jul 22, 2005 10:11 AM
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J_Edwards
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Fri Jul 22, 2005 11:21 AM
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Anonymous
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Sun Jul 24, 2005 11:11 AM
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J_Edwards
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Sun Jul 24, 2005 11:45 AM
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Anonymous
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Mon Jul 25, 2005 11:04 AM
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Anonymous
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Tue Jul 26, 2005 10:47 AM
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Re: "We sometimes allow children to die unbaptized. ."
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Pilgrim
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Sun Jul 03, 2005 4:17 PM
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Anonymous
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Sun Jul 03, 2005 10:19 PM
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Pilgrim
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Sun Jul 03, 2005 11:17 PM
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guidedbygrace
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Fri Jul 29, 2005 6:35 PM
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Peter
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Sat Jul 30, 2005 5:40 AM
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MarieP
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Sat Jul 30, 2005 2:03 PM
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Pilgrim
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Sat Jul 30, 2005 5:35 PM
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guidedbygrace
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Sat Jul 30, 2005 4:22 PM
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Peter
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Sun Jul 31, 2005 9:13 PM
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guidedbygrace
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Sun Jul 31, 2005 9:26 PM
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Pilgrim
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Sun Jul 31, 2005 9:53 PM
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guidedbygrace
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Sun Jul 31, 2005 10:42 PM
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Anonymous
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Wed Aug 03, 2005 2:47 PM
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Re: "We sometimes allow children to die unbaptized
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Pilgrim
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Wed Aug 03, 2005 3:01 PM
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Anonymous
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Wed Aug 03, 2005 7:48 PM
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Re: "We sometimes allow children to die unbaptized
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Peter
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Thu Aug 04, 2005 4:13 AM
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Anonymous
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Thu Aug 04, 2005 8:01 AM
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Peter
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Fri Aug 05, 2005 4:42 AM
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Anonymous
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Fri Aug 05, 2005 11:51 AM
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Anonymous
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Sat Aug 13, 2005 10:02 AM
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Peter
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Sat Aug 13, 2005 3:12 PM
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Anonymous
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Mon Aug 15, 2005 6:19 PM
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Re: "We sometimes allow children to die unbaptized
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J_Edwards
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Mon Aug 15, 2005 2:12 PM
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Re: "We sometimes allow children to die unbaptized
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Anonymous
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Tue Aug 16, 2005 1:41 AM
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Re: "We sometimes allow children to die unbaptized
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J_Edwards
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Tue Aug 16, 2005 11:57 AM
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Anonymous
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Wed Aug 17, 2005 5:08 AM
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J_Edwards
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Wed Aug 17, 2005 2:08 PM
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Re: "We sometimes allow children to die unbaptized
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Anonymous
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Fri Aug 19, 2005 1:31 PM
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Re: "We sometimes allow children to die unbaptized
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J_Edwards
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Fri Aug 19, 2005 2:03 PM
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Anonymous
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Sun Aug 21, 2005 4:42 AM
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J_Edwards
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Sun Aug 21, 2005 2:47 PM
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Anonymous
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Mon Aug 22, 2005 11:04 AM
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J_Edwards
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Mon Aug 22, 2005 11:57 AM
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Anonymous
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Tue Aug 23, 2005 2:14 AM
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J_Edwards
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Tue Aug 23, 2005 2:30 PM
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Anonymous
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Fri Aug 26, 2005 2:18 AM
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J_Edwards
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Fri Aug 26, 2005 12:26 PM
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Pilgrim
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Fri Aug 26, 2005 6:04 PM
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Anonymous
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Sun Aug 28, 2005 10:08 AM
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Pilgrim
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Sun Aug 28, 2005 12:41 PM
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Anonymous
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Tue Aug 30, 2005 6:47 PM
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Pilgrim
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Tue Aug 30, 2005 7:46 PM
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Pilgrim
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Fri Aug 19, 2005 4:19 PM
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Anonymous
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Sun Aug 21, 2005 5:06 AM
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Pilgrim
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Sun Aug 21, 2005 5:41 AM
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Anonymous
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Sun Aug 21, 2005 11:09 AM
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Pilgrim
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Sun Aug 21, 2005 2:38 PM
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Anonymous
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Mon Aug 22, 2005 9:49 AM
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Re: "We sometimes allow children to die unbaptized
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Anonymous
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Sat Sep 17, 2005 4:58 AM
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Re: "We sometimes allow children to die unbaptized
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Pilgrim
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Sat Sep 17, 2005 5:08 PM
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Anonymous
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Sun Sep 18, 2005 11:51 AM
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Re: "We sometimes allow children to die unbaptized
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Pilgrim
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Sun Sep 18, 2005 5:25 PM
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Anonymous
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Mon Sep 19, 2005 3:16 AM
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Pilgrim
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Mon Sep 19, 2005 5:41 PM
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Paul_S
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Mon Sep 19, 2005 2:16 AM
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Anonymous
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Tue Sep 20, 2005 10:20 AM
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Pilgrim
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Tue Sep 20, 2005 4:27 PM
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Anonymous
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Wed Sep 21, 2005 12:00 PM
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J_Edwards
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Sat Jul 02, 2005 2:45 PM
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