Originally Posted by freewill
Also, stating Calvinistic ideas is not proof.

The absurd idea that we can punish people for not being able to do what we command is immoral.

Imagine a father whipping his crippled child because she can't get up and walk at his command. Such behavior is reprehensible in men, and to ascribe such wickedness to God is blasphemy.
1) Biblical ideas ARE proof however and Calvinism does just that.

2) Your example of the crippled child is irrelevant because it is not illustrative of the truth about man's fallen condition. All men are guilty before God and have inherited a corruption of nature because they sinned in Adam and this is the just punishment which we ALL received (Rom 5:12-18; 1Cor 15:21,22; Eph 2:1-5). The child didn't choose to be crippled, assuming that it was born in that condition. But the sinful nature which all men have they did will to have in Adam, according to the Scriptures, and were consequently punished for it. Thus their inability is due to their own doing.

3) Your references to a FREEWILL offering as proof of "free-will" is a joke, right? [Linked Image]

Originally Posted by freewill
Also, repeating the mythical Calvinist definition of "free-will" that you claim to believe in is not proof. The idea that "men are free to do what they desire to do, and since they only desire sin, they are free to do that"--this is pure sophistry. Freedom of will means CHOICE to do opposite things.
Freedom of will does NOT mean "CHOICE" to opposite things. igiveup It simply means that a person is free to make choices according to his nature. Man will always choose that which is most important to him at any given time under any given circumstance.


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simul iustus et peccator

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