acts2027 said: You haven't answered my question, depsite your many words, or have you?
I have Gerry. “If ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law”. Gal 5:18.
Your replies here give no answer to that, merely the following slurs:-
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What makes you think that anyone here, or the Westminster Divines, or Owen, or Edwards, etc., is "fullfilling a righteous walk, by the Law" rather than by faith? What makes you think that you are "yoked to Christ" and we are not? What makes you so sure that we are not "led by the Spirit" and you are?
Part of your response to my question was simply to reassert to us that you have greater wisdom and understanding, given by God's grace, of course, than men such as Owen, Edwards, Luther, Hodge etc, as you say in the following quote:
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I have read many, many writers on these matters. Lloyd Jones, Owen, Trail, Calvin, Luther, Edwards, Hodge, Ryle, etc etc. I am not trapped on some GS Strict Baptist tramline. But by God's grace I have been shown the flaws in the understanding and exegesia regarding Law and Grace of such men as those listed above, whosoever they may be.
So it seems that you believe that God has shown you something of great import that all these godly and faithful men of the faith missed somehow, probably, in your mind at least, because they, unlike you, were not sufficiently taught by the Spirit, and "led of the Spirit".
This is an emotive argument, but quite a fallacious one Gerry.
Despite all your criticism here that for me to disagree with some of these men (not Luther by the way) over their teaching about the law is to demonstrate some attitude of pride, that is simply not true. As taught of God I speak what I know. If that means I ‘differ’ from some lauded names in the church then so be it. It also means I speak as one with many other names, which though not held in such great esteem by yourself and others who follow Moses, nevertheless were men greatly used of God, Huntington, Philpot, Warburton, Kershaw, Toplady, Luther and Gadsby for instance. You disagree with these gracious men.
I cannot allow the teaching or influence of men to turn me from the Spirit’s leading. Of couse I walk in all humility before God, I am acutely aware that I like all men can be deceived; I recognise that God sends men into the church with gifts to teach us, and I am thankful to God for them as far as they preach the truth, but ultimately we test what ALL these men say by two things – the word of God, and the witness of the Holy Spirit. If something they teach differs with those two witnesses then we must reject that teaching. Not quickly or rashly, but with much prayer and trembling, rather fearing God than man. There is no pride in that. In fact it is one of the very principles that the Reformation was started on isn’t it? Sola scriptura.
“But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him. “ 1 John 2:27
“And that because of false brethren unawares brought in, who came in privily to spy out our liberty which we have in Christ Jesus, that they might bring us into bondage: To whom we gave place by subjection, no, not for an hour; that the truth of the gospel might continue with you. But of these who seemed to be somewhat, (whatsoever they were, it maketh no matter to me: God accepteth no man's person:) for they who seemed to be somewhat in conference added nothing to me:” Galatians 2:4-6
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And, not only that, but you have been given this wisdom in an area which you have told me you believe to be critical to saving faith. That is to say, if I, or these other deceived men persist(ed) in our false belief on this subject we will ultimately be lost. Well, perhaps you're correct and we're all wrong, but I don't think so.
Gerry this is nonsense. I never said that rejecting this error is critical to saving faith. Indeed the Galatians were bewitched, but Paul wrote to them as believers. Nevertheless he recognised the seriousness of their error of mixing law and grace, wrote his strongest epistle to them, and warned of the grave consequences of doing so.
My point to you Gerry, written in a private PM with loving concern, is that this truth is of fundamental importance – not fundamental to saving faith, but certainly with regards to the Christian walk. You recognise that, otherwise you wouldn’t attack me so strongly, so don’t be hypocritical in getting ‘upset’ that I made a strong statement to you. In rejecting this truth I say that you are resisting the Holy Ghost (you especially Gerry, having read Huntington, Philpot and so on), and if you intentionally reject one truth then you demonstrate a spirit that would also reject other truths. Because of that you are drawing back and you should return to the pathway of faith. It greives me to see you doing so. The just shall live by faith Gerry. Now what do we read of those that draw back from living by faith?
“Now the just shall live by faith: but if any man draw back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him. But we are not of them who draw back unto perdition; but of them that believe to the saving of the soul.” Hebrews 10:38-39
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Ian, please read that last verse very carefully, It says: "If righteousness COME BY THE LAW, then Christ is dead in vain". That means that we don't earn our righteousness by the Law, before, or after, faith in Christ. Thats what I, and all these gracious men believed and taught.
Yes righteousness comes by faith Gerry. And it continues to be the ‘righteousness of faith’ as opposed to the ‘righteousness of the law’. See Romans 10. For righteousness does not come by the law, but by Christ, so why turn our gaze to the law when we can look with both eyes upon our precious Saviour?
You realise that believers are INDWELT by the Holy Spirit? Doesn’t that strike you as amazing? Don’t you think that if GOD dwells within you that He is able to lead you aright? Or must you add something to Christ’s finished work? You ‘hedge’ the Spirit about with Moses’ law ‘just to be safe’….?
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"Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is lawlessnes" 1Jn3:4
You will no doubt object to the translation, it not being the KJV, however, as Philpot was want to do on many occasions, I point out the marginal reading of : "the transgression of the Law" is actually "lawlessness", which is the more literal translation as the origial is simply "anomia" from the greek, noun form, "a" or "without" + "nomia" or "Law", or "lawlessness", to yield: "Sin is lawlessness".
Thus, Ian, what you are advocating, lawlessness, is nothing other than sin, for the two are made equivalent here by the Apostle John.
Before responding to me Gerry you would be better informed if you actually read my posts. I commented on this passage earlier in this thread and stressed the correct translation as being ‘lawlessness’. Again you make unwarranted presumptions about me.
You cannot accuse me of sin, of lawlessness Gerry, because I am not without law to God. I walk by the law of faith (Rom 3:27), the law of Christ (Gal 6:2), and the perfect law of liberty (James 1:25). And what are these laws? Faith, love (see Gal 6:2), and liberty in Christ. They cannot be Moses’ law because to stand fast in liberty we are told:-
“Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage.” Galatians 5:1
