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#520
Tue Jun 04, 2002 1:41 PM
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Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 15,025 Likes: 274
Head Honcho
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Head Honcho
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 15,025 Likes: 274 |
In reply to:
Nothing can "add to" salvation once judged - nor take that salvation away; it is finished. Purgatory is where any unconfessed venial sins and/or sins not fully contrite for - are "purged" or "cleansed" as Scripture states, "nothing unclean can enter heaven."
It would appear that you have failed to include some very pertinent information re: purgatory, which Jason has been astute enough to include below. The official RC doctrine of purgatory clearly states that it is a place of expiation and of judgment. It further states that Christ's atonement was efficacious ONLY to remove the penalty of eternal death and not for the penalty for sins committed after baptism. I find this in direct contradiction to what I read in myriad places throughout the Scriptures, i.e., Hebrews 10:12-18 (ASV) "but he, when he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God; henceforth expecting till his enemies be made the footstool of his feet. For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified. And the Holy Spirit also beareth witness to us; for after he hath said, This is the covenant that I will make with them After those days, saith the Lord: I will put my laws on their heart, And upon their mind also will I write them; [then saith he,] And their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more. Now where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin." It seems clear enough to me that the atonement was efficacious to remit "sins" and "iniquities" (plural), which contradicts this notion that ONLY "original sin" was expiated at the cross. Those, who by faith, are ingrafted into Christ and declared righteous. Because believers have had all their sins atoned for, they are declared righteous and Christ's righteousness is at the moment the sinner believes, imputed to him. Philip Eveson makes this point when he writes: Paul expounds justification in chapters four and five of Romans where righteousness is spoken of as God’s gift (5:17) and is reckoned to the believer (4:3-11). Imputation or ‘interchange’, what Luther called ‘the wonderful exchange’, is at the heart of God’s justifying grace. Sin is not reckoned to believers but to Christ and he bears it; the obedience or righteousness of Christ is reckoned to believers so that they are constituted righteous (2 Corinthians 5:21). In 1 Corinthians 1:30 Christ is described as our righteousness from God. Again Philippians 3:9, ‘not having a righteousness of my own that comes from the law, but...the righteousness that comes from God and is by faith’, parallels Paul’s statement in Romans 10:3 ‘not knowing the righteousness of God and seeking to establish their own righteousness, they did not submit to the righteousness of God’ (a literal translation). The Philippians passage clearly shows that righteousness is a gift from God (‘the righteousness from God’) and that must be taken into account in any discussion of the term ‘the righteousness of God’. Philippians 3:9 also associates this righteousness with faith in Christ. Incidentally, faith is stressed in Romans 1:17 and that adds weight to the view that the gift element cannot be ignored when interpreting ‘the righteousness of God’ there. (The Great Exchange Day One Publications: GB, p. 17) Paul also declares: 1 Corinthians 1:30 (ASV) "But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who was made unto us wisdom from God, and righteousness and sanctification, and redemption:" Thus even our sanctification was secured for believers in Christ's substitutionary atonement. Further, "Original Sin" is not to be understood as an "act"; the singular transgression of Adam, but rather the penalty which was the result of Adam's transgression, i.e., the guilt imputed and the corruption of nature inherited. (Rom 5:12-18). In His Grace,
simul iustus et peccator
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Entire Thread
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Roman Catholicism and salvation
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Anonymous
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Sun Jun 02, 2002 2:21 AM
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Re: Roman Catholicism and salvation
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Anonymous
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Sun Jun 02, 2002 10:12 AM
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Re: Roman Catholicism and salvation
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Anonymous
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Mon Jun 03, 2002 1:01 AM
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Re: Roman Catholicism and salvation
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lazarus
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Mon Jun 03, 2002 2:14 AM
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Re: Roman Catholicism and salvation
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Anonymous
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Tue Jun 04, 2002 7:35 AM
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Re: Roman Catholicism and salvation
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Jason1646
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Tue Jun 04, 2002 12:52 PM
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Re: Roman Catholicism and salvation
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lazarus
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Tue Jun 04, 2002 2:19 PM
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Re: Roman Catholicism and salvation
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Anonymous
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Tue Jun 04, 2002 3:57 PM
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Re: Roman Catholicism and salvation
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Jason1646
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Tue Jun 04, 2002 5:03 PM
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Re: Roman Catholicism and salvation
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Anonymous
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Thu Jun 06, 2002 10:04 AM
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Re: Roman Catholicism and salvation
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Pilgrim
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Tue Jun 04, 2002 5:41 PM
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Re: Roman Catholicism and salvation
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Anonymous
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Mon Jun 03, 2002 9:40 AM
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Re: Roman Catholicism and salvation
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Anonymous
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Tue Jun 04, 2002 7:20 AM
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Re: Roman Catholicism and salvation
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Anonymous
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Tue Jun 04, 2002 8:53 AM
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Re: Roman Catholicism and salvation
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Five_Sola
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Mon Jun 03, 2002 12:00 PM
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Re: Roman Catholicism and salvation
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Anonymous
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Tue Jun 04, 2002 7:01 AM
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Re: Roman Catholicism and salvation
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Five_Sola
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Tue Jun 04, 2002 2:43 PM
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Re: Roman Catholicism and salvation
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Anonymous
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Wed Jun 05, 2002 12:14 AM
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Re: Roman Catholicism and salvation
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Five_Sola
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Wed Jun 05, 2002 12:37 PM
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Re: Roman Catholicism and salvation
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Wes
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Wed Jun 05, 2002 5:34 PM
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Re: Roman Catholicism and salvation
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Anonymous
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Mon Jun 03, 2002 4:25 PM
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Re: Roman Catholicism and salvation
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Jason1646
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Mon Jun 03, 2002 7:29 PM
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Re: Roman Catholicism and salvation
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Anonymous
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Tue Jun 04, 2002 6:54 AM
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Re: Roman Catholicism and salvation
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Jason1646
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Tue Jun 04, 2002 12:32 PM
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Re: Roman Catholicism and salvation
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Anonymous
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Tue Jun 04, 2002 11:11 PM
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Re: Roman Catholicism and salvation
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Wes
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Wed Jun 05, 2002 12:10 AM
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Re: Roman Catholicism and salvation
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Anonymous
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Wed Jun 05, 2002 12:27 AM
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Re: Roman Catholicism and salvation
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Anonymous
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Thu Jun 06, 2002 9:52 AM
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Re: Roman Catholicism and salvation
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Pilgrim
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Thu Jun 06, 2002 11:29 AM
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Re: Roman Catholicism and salvation
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Anonymous
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Sat Jun 08, 2002 3:18 AM
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Re: Roman Catholicism and salvation
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Pilgrim
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Sat Jun 08, 2002 12:58 PM
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Re: Roman Catholicism and salvation
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Anonymous
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Sun Jun 09, 2002 5:36 PM
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Re: Roman Catholicism and salvation
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Pilgrim
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Sun Jun 09, 2002 6:01 PM
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Re: Roman Catholicism and salvation
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Anonymous
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Sun Jun 09, 2002 7:01 PM
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Re: Roman Catholicism and salvation
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Pilgrim
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Sun Jun 09, 2002 7:31 PM
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Re: Roman Catholicism and salvation
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Anonymous
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Sun Jun 09, 2002 8:03 PM
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Re: Roman Catholicism and salvation
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Pilgrim
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Sun Jun 09, 2002 10:33 PM
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Re: Roman Catholicism and salvation
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Anonymous
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Sun Jun 09, 2002 11:05 PM
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Re: Roman Catholicism and salvation
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Anonymous
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Sun Jun 09, 2002 8:05 PM
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Re: Roman Catholicism and salvation
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Anonymous
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Thu Jun 06, 2002 11:42 AM
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Re: Roman Catholicism and salvation
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Tom
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Thu Jun 06, 2002 7:46 PM
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Re: Roman Catholicism and salvation
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Five_Sola
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Thu Jun 06, 2002 11:43 AM
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Re: Roman Catholicism and salvation
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Anonymous
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Thu Jun 06, 2002 12:22 PM
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Re: Roman Catholicism and salvation
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Jason1646
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Thu Jun 06, 2002 2:21 PM
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Re: Roman Catholicism and salvation
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Tom
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Thu Jun 06, 2002 7:38 PM
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Re: Roman Catholicism and salvation
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Anonymous
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Fri Jun 07, 2002 12:43 AM
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Re: Roman Catholicism and salvation
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Wes
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Thu Jun 06, 2002 6:18 PM
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Re: Roman Catholicism and salvation
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Anonymous
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Fri Jun 07, 2002 12:29 AM
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Re: Roman Catholicism and salvation
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lazarus
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Fri Jun 07, 2002 3:17 PM
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Re: Roman Catholicism and salvation
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Anonymous
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Sat Jun 08, 2002 2:20 AM
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Re: Roman Catholicism and salvation
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lazarus
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Sat Jun 08, 2002 3:14 AM
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Re: Roman Catholicism and salvation
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Anonymous
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Sat Jun 08, 2002 4:18 AM
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Re: Roman Catholicism and salvation
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Jason1646
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Wed Jun 05, 2002 12:59 AM
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Re: Roman Catholicism and salvation
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Tom
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Wed Jun 05, 2002 6:01 AM
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Re: Roman Catholicism and salvation
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Anonymous
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Sat Jun 08, 2002 3:02 AM
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Re: Roman Catholicism and salvation
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Anonymous
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Wed Jun 05, 2002 4:26 AM
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Re: Roman Catholicism and salvation
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Jason1646
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Wed Jun 05, 2002 11:19 AM
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Re: Roman Catholicism and salvation
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Anonymous
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Wed Jun 05, 2002 1:50 PM
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Re: Roman Catholicism and salvation
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Anonymous
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Thu Jun 06, 2002 12:34 PM
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Re: Roman Catholicism and salvation
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Anonymous
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Thu Jun 06, 2002 3:04 PM
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Re: Roman Catholicism and salvation
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Anonymous
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Sat Jun 08, 2002 5:02 AM
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Re: Roman Catholicism and salvation
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Anonymous
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Sat Jun 08, 2002 9:39 AM
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Re: Roman Catholicism and salvation
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Anonymous
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Sun Jun 09, 2002 7:50 PM
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Re: Roman Catholicism and salvation
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Anonymous
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Sat Jun 08, 2002 7:41 PM
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Re: Roman Catholicism and salvation
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Anonymous
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Sun Jun 09, 2002 6:48 PM
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Re: Roman Catholicism and salvation
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Anonymous
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Mon Jun 10, 2002 11:13 AM
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Re: Roman Catholicism and salvation
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Anonymous
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Mon Jun 10, 2002 10:12 PM
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Just wondering...
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Anonymous
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Mon Jun 10, 2002 11:45 PM
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Re: Just wondering...
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Anonymous
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Tue Jun 11, 2002 3:28 AM
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Re: Just wondering...
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Jason1646
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Tue Jun 11, 2002 12:27 PM
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OUCH, that must hurt!
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lazarus
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Tue Jun 11, 2002 3:45 PM
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Re: OUCH, that must hurt!
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Anonymous
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Sun Jun 16, 2002 5:13 AM
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Re: OUCH, that must hurt!
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Jason1646
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Mon Jun 17, 2002 1:12 PM
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Kicking up sand?
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Anonymous
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Sat Jul 13, 2002 2:50 AM
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Re: Just wondering...
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Anonymous
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Wed Jun 12, 2002 10:42 PM
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Re: Roman Catholicism and salvation
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Anonymous
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Tue Jun 11, 2002 11:16 AM
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Re: Roman Catholicism and salvation
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lazarus
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Tue Jun 11, 2002 3:38 PM
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Re: Roman Catholicism and salvation
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Anonymous
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Tue Jun 11, 2002 5:05 PM
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Re: Roman Catholicism and salvation
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Jason1646
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Tue Jun 11, 2002 7:26 PM
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Re: Roman Catholicism and salvation
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Anonymous
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Sun Jun 16, 2002 5:32 AM
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Re: Gross Misunderstanding needs clarification
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Pilgrim
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Sun Jun 16, 2002 1:24 PM
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Re: Gross Misunderstanding needs clarification
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Anonymous
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Mon Jun 17, 2002 5:04 AM
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Re: Gross Misunderstanding needs clarification
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Pilgrim
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Mon Jun 17, 2002 2:33 PM
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Re: Gross Misunderstanding needs clarification
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Anonymous
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Mon Jun 17, 2002 11:48 PM
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Re: Gross Misunderstanding needs clarification
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Pilgrim
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Tue Jun 18, 2002 12:46 AM
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Re: Gross Misunderstanding needs clarification
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Tom
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Tue Jun 18, 2002 5:32 AM
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Re: Gross Misunderstanding needs clarification
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Pilgrim
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Tue Jun 18, 2002 12:13 PM
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Re: Gross Misunderstanding needs clarification
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Tom
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Wed Jun 19, 2002 4:39 AM
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Re: Gross Misunderstanding needs clarification
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Wes
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Tue Jun 18, 2002 1:54 PM
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Re: Gross Misunderstanding needs clarification
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lazarus
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Tue Jun 18, 2002 2:14 PM
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Re: Gross Misunderstanding needs clarification
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Anonymous
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Tue Jun 18, 2002 1:33 AM
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A few short questions for Scott
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Paul_S
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Tue Jun 18, 2002 4:32 PM
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Re: A few short questions for Scott
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Anonymous
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Sat Jul 13, 2002 2:58 AM
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Re: A few short questions for Scott
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Paul_S
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Sat Jul 13, 2002 3:22 AM
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Re: A few short questions for Scott
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Anonymous
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Sun Jul 14, 2002 4:25 AM
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Re: A few short questions for Scott
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Pilgrim
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Sun Jul 14, 2002 4:48 AM
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Re: A few short questions for Scott
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Anonymous
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Mon Jul 15, 2002 2:00 AM
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Re: A few short questions for Scott
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Pilgrim
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Mon Jul 15, 2002 2:24 AM
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Re: A few short questions for Scott
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Anonymous
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Fri Jul 26, 2002 12:54 AM
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Re: A few short questions for Scott
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Pilgrim
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Fri Jul 26, 2002 1:37 AM
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Re: A few short questions for Scott
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Anonymous
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Sat Jul 27, 2002 6:13 AM
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An additional set of questions for Scott
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Paul_S
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Fri Jul 26, 2002 3:29 AM
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Re: An additional set of questions for Scott
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Anonymous
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Sat Jul 27, 2002 4:56 AM
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Disconnect
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Paul_S
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Sat Jul 27, 2002 5:41 AM
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Re: Disconnect
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Anonymous
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Sat Jul 27, 2002 6:25 AM
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Re: Disconnect
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Paul_S
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Sat Jul 27, 2002 6:49 AM
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The Bottom Line
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Paul_S
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Sat Jul 27, 2002 1:34 PM
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Re: The Bottom Line
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Anonymous
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Sat Jul 27, 2002 3:50 PM
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Re: The Bottom Line
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Anonymous
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Sat Jul 27, 2002 9:53 PM
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A lesson in deduction
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Paul_S
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Fri Jul 26, 2002 5:28 AM
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Re: A lesson in deduction
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Anonymous
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Fri Jul 26, 2002 2:22 PM
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Re: A lesson in deduction
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Paul_S
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Fri Jul 26, 2002 2:29 PM
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Re: A lesson in deduction
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Anonymous
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Sat Jul 27, 2002 1:12 AM
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Baltimore Oh!'s
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Paul_S
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Fri Jul 26, 2002 5:08 PM
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Re: Baltimore Oh!'s
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Pilgrim
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Fri Jul 26, 2002 5:25 PM
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Re: Baltimore Oh!'s
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Ehud
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Fri Jul 26, 2002 8:51 PM
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My Habits vs My Intentions
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Wes
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Fri Jul 26, 2002 6:19 PM
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Re: Baltimore Oh!'s
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Anonymous
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Fri Jul 26, 2002 6:28 PM
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Especially In The Morning
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Anonymous
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Sat Jul 27, 2002 2:37 AM
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Re: Especially In The Morning
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Anonymous
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Sat Jul 27, 2002 10:58 PM
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Re: A lesson in deduction
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Anonymous
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Sat Jul 27, 2002 2:11 AM
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Great Lessons from the Baltimore Catechism!
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Anonymous
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Sat Jul 27, 2002 1:59 AM
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Re: Great Lessons from the Baltimore Catechism!
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Paul_S
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Sat Jul 27, 2002 2:58 AM
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Varieties of Semi-Pelagianism
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Paul_S
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Mon Jul 15, 2002 3:07 AM
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Re: Varieties of Semi-Pelagianism
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Pilgrim
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Mon Jul 15, 2002 1:13 PM
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Presumption, pride and boldness
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Paul_S
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Sun Jul 14, 2002 8:45 AM
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Re: Presumption, pride and boldness
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Anonymous
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Sun Jul 14, 2002 7:28 PM
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Missing the point
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Paul_S
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Sun Jul 14, 2002 10:39 PM
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Re: Missing the point
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Anonymous
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Mon Jul 15, 2002 1:57 AM
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Re: A few short questions for Scott
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Paul_S
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Sat Jul 13, 2002 3:46 AM
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Re: Roman Catholicism and salvation
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J_Edwards
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Sun Jun 02, 2002 2:18 PM
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Re: Roman Catholicism and salvation
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bishop3
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Sun Jun 02, 2002 2:39 PM
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Re: Roman Catholicism and salvation
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Anonymous
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Mon Jun 03, 2002 1:04 AM
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Re: Roman Catholicism and salvation
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bishop3
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Mon Jun 03, 2002 4:52 AM
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Re: Roman Catholicism and salvation
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Anonymous
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Sun Jun 02, 2002 3:44 PM
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Re: Roman Catholicism and salvation
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Tom
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Sun Jun 02, 2002 6:54 PM
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Re: Roman Catholicism and salvation
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Anonymous
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Fri Nov 07, 2003 1:09 PM
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Re: Roman Catholicism and salvation
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Tom
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Fri Nov 07, 2003 6:22 PM
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Re: Roman Catholicism and salvation
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Anonymous
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Sat Nov 08, 2003 1:06 AM
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Re: Roman Catholicism and salvation
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Henry
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Tue Nov 11, 2003 3:10 AM
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Re: Roman Catholicism and salvation
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Anonymous
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Tue Nov 11, 2003 6:52 PM
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Re: Roman Catholicism and salvation
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Anonymous
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Tue Nov 11, 2003 8:13 PM
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Re: Roman Catholicism and salvation
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Henry
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Thu Nov 13, 2003 1:34 AM
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Re: Roman Catholicism and salvation
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Anonymous
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Fri Nov 14, 2003 7:41 AM
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Re: Roman Catholicism and salvation
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Wes
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Mon Jun 03, 2002 12:25 AM
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Re: Roman Catholicism and salvation
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Anonymous
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Mon Jun 03, 2002 1:12 AM
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Re: Roman Catholicism and salvation
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Five_Sola
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Mon Jun 03, 2002 11:54 AM
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Re: Roman Catholicism and salvation
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Anonymous
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Mon Jun 03, 2002 4:17 PM
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Misrepresentaions of RC Justification
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J_Edwards
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Tue Jun 04, 2002 4:12 PM
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Re: Roman Catholicism and salvation
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Dvan34
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Mon Feb 18, 2013 4:10 AM
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Re: Roman Catholicism and salvation
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Dvan34
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Sun Mar 03, 2013 2:21 AM
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Re: Roman Catholicism and salvation
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Cranmer
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Mon Apr 22, 2013 8:29 PM
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Re: Roman Catholicism and salvation
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Dvan34
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Thu May 23, 2013 9:05 PM
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Re: Roman Catholicism and salvation
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Pilgrim
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Thu May 23, 2013 9:24 PM
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Re: Roman Catholicism and salvation
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Dvan34
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Thu May 23, 2013 11:09 PM
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Re: Roman Catholicism and salvation
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Tom
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Fri May 24, 2013 3:20 AM
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Re: Roman Catholicism and salvation
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Dvan34
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Fri May 24, 2013 4:17 AM
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Re: Roman Catholicism and salvation
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Pilgrim
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Fri May 24, 2013 10:00 AM
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Re: Roman Catholicism and salvation
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Milan
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Thu Jun 15, 2017 1:34 PM
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Re: Roman Catholicism and salvation
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042Dave
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Fri Jan 08, 2021 11:40 AM
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