The Highway Forums General Discussion Theology Discussion Forum Roman Catholicism and salvation

Cathapol,

As I expected you have only clouded over what you have maintained is clear; i.e., the OFFICIAL Roman Catholic doctrine of "Justification" and that held by you. Further even if you wish to maintain, in spite of the obvious differences, you have once again shot yourself in the foot by revealing the gross antithesis within the Roman Catholic doctrine of "Justification".

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Well, first off I believe there are some that believe that no works are meritorious in any way, shape or form.

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If you are referring to "Justification"; how one is accepted as just before God, then by your own testimony, both Rome and yourself would agree with that statement. For you have maintained quite vehemently, that one CANNOT ADD (INCREASE) TO NOR SUBTRACT (DECREASE) FROM JUSTIFICATION. IF you are referring to "Sanctification", then no true Protestant would find that statement acceptable, for biblically, anyone who has been regenerated and given faith will infallibly be justified and all who are justified will infallibly show forth good works as fruit of that regeneration, which out of God's infinite grace, are rewarded in the end.

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Trent also opposes the "once saved, always saved" mentality. Grace is a gift, but those who do not "persevere" in Grace can lose that "gift."

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Could anything be more perspicuously contradictory and antithetical to all that you have posited in regard to "Justification"; both your view which is allegedly the same as Rome's OFFICIAL teaching? If Justification can NEVER be increased nor decreased, then how is it possible that anyone could be lost who has, in fact, been JUSTIFIED? It is YOU who has admitted that Rome sometimes intermixes the terms "justification" and "sanctification". And you have likewise maintained that justification is unalterable once established, but sanctification is alterable, being dynamic; subject to increase and decrease. Further, sanctification ONLY has to do with rewards.

I'll not respond your admission and embrace of the semi-Pelagian concept of "free-will" here, but I would be more than happy to engage you concerning that topic in another thread.

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As far as sola fide is concerned, the only plausible explanation I have heard from Protestantism is the statement of "justification is by faith alone, but not a faith that is alone" (RC Sproul, Faith Alone, p 155). That statement from Sproul (and others) makes doublespeak of sola fide, for what is "faith alone, but not a faith that is alone?" RC is saying that something else is necessary to go along with faith (reconciling Protestantism to James 2:24) stating works are necessary to show a saving faith.

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I often wonder how it is that Roman Catholics, especially those who have come out of Protestantism and claim to have understood Protestant dogma can make such statements as yours!!

Whether you choose to agree or disagree with the doctrine of Sola Fide, it is certainly logical and easily comprehended. What R.C. Sproul and all those who adhere to the biblical formulation of Sola Fide are saying is that JUSTIFICATION is a judicial declaration whereby a sinner is legally pronounced "not guilty" based upon SOLELY upon the merits of the Lord Jesus Christ. Christ's vicarious substitutionary atonement effectively and completely satisfied the law of God for the elect in His death. And, likewise those same elect are given His perfect righteousness. Thus they stand LEGALLY righteous (alien righteousness) and therefore are not subject to judgment; that judgment having been executed on the cross. Because, the elect are also regenerated (a necessary means to salvation), in the application of Christ's meritorious vicarious substitutionary atonement for the elect, good works naturally flow from that new nature created within them.

It is often the case that many modern Protestants in addition to most Catholics, err in making "faith" a work, i.e., the proximate CAUSE of justification, which is annexed to Christ's atonement, which ALONE is acceptable and meritorious. There is absolutely NO VALUE, NOR MERIT in faith. For even that faith is a gift of God which terminates infallibly in Christ and His work.

Thus, the Scriptures and the Reformed doctrine of "Sola Fide" clearly teach that justification is the declaration of being not guilty and sanctification is the natural expression of one justified; having been given a new nature that naturally seeks to conform to God's perfect law and which are anterior to justification and having no effect upon it.