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#760
Fri Jun 28, 2002 9:04 PM
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Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 1,856
Needs to get a Life
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Needs to get a Life
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 1,856 |
Josh,<br><br>First of all I want to apologize to you for the remarks I made in my previous reply. I didn’t mean to sound so condescending. I think you are sincere in what you believe even though I disagree with your conclusions. I should not be so humored by your thoughts. It’s just that your argument is so contrary to what the Bible teaches about perserverance. Your idea that a man who is truely born again spiritually would actually walk away from God and His grace blows my mind. How can one have any confidence in their salvation when it depends on themselves? You just can’t build sound doctrine by interpreting one or two verses that disagree with a larger body of Scripture. <br><blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr><p>A "works righteousness?" I don't understand, please elaborate. But yes, I do believe that man has the ability to either accept or reject Jesus Christ. I do not believe that a man can come to God of his own free will, unless God draws him first.<p><hr></blockquote><p><br>The distinction here is that I believe that I am saved by grace alone and you are stating that you believe that we are saved by grace and works. For example your "acceptance" as you define it is something that God waits for you to do. You elaborated on this in the following paragraph as well...<br><blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr><p>"There is plenty that one can do to affect one's salvation. Read Acts 2:40 (save yourselves from this wicked generation), Hebrews 4:11 (let us labor to enter into His rest), and 2 Peter 1:5-10 to read how to make your calling and election sure. Let me emphasize, I do not believe in salvation by works, merit, or keeping of the law. But there are conditions which God has placed upon us if we are to receive (and retain) this precious gift"<p><hr></blockquote><p><br>These conditions as you describe them are what I would call works. If you were to describe them as the result of salvation rather than a condition to be saved I might be inclined to agree with you.<br><br>There are many passages that teach that those who are truly born again, who are genuinely Christians, will continue in the Christian life until death and will then go to be with Christ in heaven. In John 6:38-40 Jesus says, “For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me. This is the will of the Father who sent Me, that of all He has given Me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up at the last day. And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that everyone who sees the Son and believes in Him may have everlasting life; and I will raise him up at the last day."<br><br>It seems clear that everyone who truly believes in Christ will remain a Christian up to the day of final resurrection into the blessed life in the presence of God. As verse 39 states He should lose nothing of all that the Father has given Him. <br><br>Arminians have objected that “eternal life” is simply a quality of life, a type of life in relationship with God, which one can have for a time and lose it. The Hebrews 6 passage that you’ve chosen is one of those that Arminians use as a proof that believers can lose their salvation. But I don't believe that the person described there is a true believer. It's a sober warning and one that has been interpreted in different ways. But I don't believe a true Christian can lose their salvation. I think this Hebrews passage is describing an apostate. They appeared to be a Christian by their profession and participating in the life of the church but the fact that they fell away shows that their faith wasn't genuine and had no roots. <br><br>I know that Christ is all in all. Man is nothing: he has a free will to go to hell, but none to go to heaven, till God worketh in him to will and do His pleasure. Oh the excellency of the doctrine of election and of the saints' final perserverance! I am persuaded, till a man comes to believe and feel these important truths, he cannot come out of himself, but when convinced of these and assured of their application to his own heart, he walks by faith indeed.<br><br>Wes
Last edited by Wesley; Sat Jun 29, 2002 7:34 AM.
When I survey the wondrous cross on which the Prince of Glory died, my richest gain I count but loss and pour contempt on all my pride. - Isaac Watts
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Entire Thread
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Revelation 22:19 Contradicts Calvinist Doctrine
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Anonymous
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Wed Jun 19, 2002 4:42 PM
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Re: Revelation 22:19 Contradicts Calvinist Doctrine
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Pilgrim
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Wed Jun 19, 2002 5:26 PM
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There cannot be two books of life
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Anonymous
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Thu Jun 20, 2002 4:36 PM
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Re: There cannot be two books of life
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Pilgrim
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Thu Jun 20, 2002 5:29 PM
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Protestant doesn't necessarily mean Calvinist
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Anonymous
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Fri Jun 21, 2002 7:20 PM
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Re: Protestant doesn't necessarily mean Calvinist
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Pilgrim
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Fri Jun 21, 2002 7:54 PM
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That doesn't address the issue
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Anonymous
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Mon Jun 24, 2002 4:51 PM
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Re: That doesn't address the issue
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Pilgrim
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Mon Jun 24, 2002 5:42 PM
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Re: That doesn't address the issue
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Anonymous
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Wed Jun 26, 2002 3:44 PM
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A Minor Point
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Anonymous
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Tue Jun 25, 2002 8:13 PM
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Re: There cannot be two books of life
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Wes
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Thu Jun 20, 2002 6:17 PM
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Changing a book doesn't change God
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Anonymous
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Mon Jun 24, 2002 1:44 PM
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Ordinances Annulled
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Anonymous
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Mon Jun 24, 2002 5:56 PM
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Re: Ordinances Annulled
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Anonymous
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Tue Jun 25, 2002 4:32 PM
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Consider this Josh
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Anonymous
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Wed Jun 26, 2002 12:18 AM
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Re: Consider this Josh
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Anonymous
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Wed Jun 26, 2002 4:20 PM
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Re: Consider this Josh
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Anonymous
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Wed Jun 26, 2002 6:56 PM
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Re: Consider this Josh
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Anonymous
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Thu Jun 27, 2002 2:57 AM
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A consideration for you
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Anonymous
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Mon Jul 01, 2002 3:30 PM
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Sanctification
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lazarus
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Mon Jul 01, 2002 5:12 PM
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Sanctification in Hebrews 10:29
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Anonymous
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Mon Jul 08, 2002 8:28 PM
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Original Sin = No Free Will
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Wes
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Tue Jun 25, 2002 12:46 PM
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You misunderstand my position brother
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Anonymous
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Tue Jun 25, 2002 4:19 PM
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Re: You misunderstand my position brother
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Wes
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Tue Jun 25, 2002 7:35 PM
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Re: You misunderstand my position brother
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Anonymous
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Fri Jun 28, 2002 8:54 PM
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Re: You misunderstand my position brother
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Wes
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Sat Jun 29, 2002 2:04 AM
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Re: You misunderstand my position brother
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Anonymous
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Mon Jul 08, 2002 8:25 PM
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Re: You misunderstand my position brother
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Ehud
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Tue Jul 09, 2002 12:12 AM
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The greatest commandment
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Anonymous
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Mon Aug 05, 2002 2:16 PM
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Re: You misunderstand my position brother
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Wes
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Sat Jul 13, 2002 1:15 AM
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Ryle on Assurance
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Anonymous
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Sat Jul 13, 2002 1:10 PM
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Re: Ryle on Assurance
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Wes
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Sat Jul 13, 2002 4:47 PM
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Justification and sanctification are inseparable
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Anonymous
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Thu Aug 08, 2002 2:22 PM
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Justification and sanctification are inseparable but distinct
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Anonymous
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Thu Aug 08, 2002 10:42 PM
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The sovereignty of God
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Anonymous
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Thu Aug 08, 2002 2:20 PM
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Re: The sovereignty of God
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Wes
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Fri Aug 09, 2002 12:54 PM
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Meaning of Nothing
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Anonymous
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Sat Jun 29, 2002 12:00 PM
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Meaning of "separate"
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Anonymous
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Mon Jul 01, 2002 4:41 PM
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More comments to consider
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Anonymous
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Tue Jul 02, 2002 12:40 AM
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John Gill's commentary
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Anonymous
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Fri Jul 12, 2002 4:39 PM
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Re: Meaning of "separate"
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Anonymous
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Tue Jul 02, 2002 2:52 AM
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Re: Meaning of "separate"
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Anonymous
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Mon Jul 08, 2002 8:27 PM
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Re: Meaning of "separate"
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Anonymous
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Tue Jul 09, 2002 3:09 AM
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Re: Meaning of "separate"
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Anonymous
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Tue Jul 30, 2002 1:51 PM
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Re: Meaning of "separate"
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lazarus
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Tue Jul 30, 2002 3:55 PM
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What God wills
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Anonymous
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Sat Aug 24, 2002 6:05 AM
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Re: What God wills
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Ehud
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Sat Aug 24, 2002 2:28 PM
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Re: What God wills
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Anonymous
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Tue Aug 27, 2002 5:57 PM
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Re: What God wills
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lazarus
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Tue Aug 27, 2002 6:43 PM
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Conditions and works
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Anonymous
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Tue Oct 01, 2002 5:10 PM
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Re: Conditions and works
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lazarus
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Tue Oct 01, 2002 11:57 PM
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God not a respecter...
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lazarus
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Sat Jun 29, 2002 11:57 PM
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Re: God not a respecter...
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Anonymous
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Mon Jul 08, 2002 8:19 PM
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Re: Revelation 22:19 Contradicts Calvinist Doctrine
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Ricky
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Wed Jan 12, 2011 12:26 AM
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Re: Revelation 22:19 Contradicts Calvinist Doctrine
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Pilgrim
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Fri Jun 06, 2014 6:38 PM
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Re: Revelation 22:19 Contradicts Calvinist Doctrine
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J_Edwards
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Thu Jun 20, 2002 5:41 PM
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One may lose more than the tree of life
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Anonymous
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Mon Jun 24, 2002 4:24 PM
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Re: Revelation 22:19 Contradicts Calvinist Doctrine
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Ricky
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Wed Jan 12, 2011 12:32 AM
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Re: Revelation 22:19 Contradicts Calvinist Doctrine
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Kez
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Wed Jan 12, 2011 5:43 PM
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Re: Revelation 22:19 Contradicts Calvinist Doctrine
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chestnutmare
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Wed Jan 12, 2011 9:06 PM
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Re: Revelation 22:19 Contradicts Calvinist Doctrine
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Anonymous
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Thu Jun 20, 2002 11:38 PM
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Re: Revelation 22:19 Contradicts Calvinist Doctrine
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Anonymous
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Fri Jun 21, 2002 6:54 PM
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Re: Revelation 22:19 Contradicts Calvinist Doctrine
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J_Edwards
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Fri Jun 21, 2002 7:43 PM
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Re: Revelation 22:19 Contradicts Calvinist Doctrine
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Anonymous
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Fri Jun 21, 2002 8:02 PM
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Re: Revelation 22:19 Contradicts Calvinist Doctrine
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J_Edwards
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Fri Jun 21, 2002 8:13 PM
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Re: Revelation 22:19 Contradicts Calvinist Doctrine
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Tom
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Sat Jun 22, 2002 6:13 AM
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Re: Revelation 22:19 Contradicts Calvinist Doctrine
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carlos
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Mon Jun 24, 2002 3:44 PM
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Characteristics of sheep
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Anonymous
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Mon Jun 24, 2002 4:18 PM
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Re: Characteristics of sheep
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Anonymous
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Tue Jun 25, 2002 4:18 AM
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Re: Characteristics of sheep
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Anonymous
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Tue Jun 25, 2002 4:12 PM
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Re: Characteristics of sheep
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Anonymous
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Wed Jun 26, 2002 4:49 AM
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Re: Characteristics of sheep
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Anonymous
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Fri Jun 28, 2002 8:56 PM
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Re: Characteristics of sheep
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Anonymous
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Sat Jun 29, 2002 2:37 AM
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Re: Characteristics of sheep
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Anonymous
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Mon Jul 08, 2002 8:16 PM
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Re: Characteristics of sheep
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Anonymous
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Tue Jul 09, 2002 2:47 AM
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Re: Characteristics of sheep
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Anonymous
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Tue Jul 30, 2002 1:53 PM
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Re: Characteristics of sheep
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Anonymous
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Wed Jul 31, 2002 3:46 AM
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Re: Characteristics of sheep
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carlos
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Tue Jun 25, 2002 4:17 PM
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Merits vs. Conditions
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Anonymous
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Thu Jun 27, 2002 7:54 PM
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Re: Election....
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carlos
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Fri Jun 28, 2002 12:23 PM
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Re: Election....
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Anonymous
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Mon Jul 08, 2002 8:14 PM
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Re: Election....
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carlos
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Sat Jul 13, 2002 4:37 PM
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Re: Election....
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carlos
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Sun Jul 14, 2002 3:23 PM
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Re: Election....
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Anonymous
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Thu Aug 08, 2002 2:05 PM
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BUSY....
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carlos
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Sat Aug 24, 2002 6:24 PM
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Re: perseverance
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carlos
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Fri Jun 28, 2002 2:07 PM
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Re: perseverance
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Anonymous
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Mon Jul 08, 2002 8:12 PM
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The Good Shepherd?
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Anonymous
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Wed Jul 10, 2002 1:24 PM
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You sorely misjudge me
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Anonymous
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Tue Jul 30, 2002 1:38 PM
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Re: You sorely misjudge me
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lazarus
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Tue Jul 30, 2002 3:21 PM
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In reply...
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Anonymous
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Thu Aug 08, 2002 2:30 PM
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Re: In reply...
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Anonymous
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Fri Aug 09, 2002 12:42 AM
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Re: In reply...
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Anonymous
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Tue Oct 01, 2002 5:19 PM
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Re: In reply...
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Anonymous
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Wed Oct 02, 2002 6:15 PM
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Re: In reply...
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Anonymous
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Fri Oct 11, 2002 3:52 PM
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Re: In reply...
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Ehud
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Fri Oct 11, 2002 3:54 PM
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Some questions
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Anonymous
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Sun Aug 04, 2002 11:20 PM
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Some answers
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Anonymous
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Thu Aug 08, 2002 2:26 PM
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Re: perseverance
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carlos
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Sun Jul 21, 2002 3:03 AM
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Forgot "DO NOT"
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carlos
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Sun Jul 21, 2002 2:16 PM
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Hope he returns
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Anonymous
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Mon Jul 22, 2002 1:08 PM
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Haven't left, just been busy
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Anonymous
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Tue Jul 30, 2002 2:00 PM
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Re: Haven't left, just been busy
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Anonymous
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Tue Jul 30, 2002 5:10 PM
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Re: perseverance
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Anonymous
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Thu Aug 08, 2002 2:01 PM
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Rebuttal on Perseverance
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Anonymous
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Mon Aug 05, 2002 1:57 PM
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Re: Rebuttal on Perseverance
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fredman
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Mon Aug 05, 2002 2:14 PM
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In reply...
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Anonymous
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Sat Aug 24, 2002 6:09 AM
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Re: In reply...
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fredman
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Mon Aug 26, 2002 6:25 PM
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Re: In reply...
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Anonymous
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Tue Oct 01, 2002 5:06 PM
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Re: In reply...
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fredman
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Wed Oct 02, 2002 5:56 PM
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conditional salvation and God's warnings
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Anonymous
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Wed Apr 02, 2003 4:53 PM
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Re: conditional salvation and God's warnings
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carlos
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Fri Apr 04, 2003 3:49 PM
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Re: conditional salvation and God's warnings
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fredman
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Fri Apr 11, 2003 10:25 AM
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Re: Merits vs. Conditions
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carlos
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Fri Jun 28, 2002 3:21 PM
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Glorification
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Anonymous
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Mon Jul 08, 2002 8:10 PM
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Re: Glorification
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carlos
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Sun Jul 14, 2002 7:55 AM
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Re: Revelation 22:19 Contradicts Calvinist Doctrine
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Anonymous
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Mon Jun 24, 2002 4:18 PM
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Redirection
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Anonymous
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Mon Aug 05, 2002 2:25 PM
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You read between the lines
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Anonymous
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Mon Jun 24, 2002 4:00 PM
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Re: You read between the lines
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J_Edwards
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Mon Jun 24, 2002 4:38 PM
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How a man is saved
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Anonymous
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Mon Jun 24, 2002 5:08 PM
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Re: How a man is saved
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J_Edwards
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Mon Jun 24, 2002 6:27 PM
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What "save yourselves" actually means
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Anonymous
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Mon Jun 24, 2002 8:55 PM
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Josh You Are Soooooo Confused
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J_Edwards
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Mon Jun 24, 2002 10:30 PM
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In reply...
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Anonymous
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Thu Jun 27, 2002 7:49 PM
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Re: In reply...
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J_Edwards
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Thu Jun 27, 2002 8:04 PM
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Re: In reply...
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Ehud
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Thu Jun 27, 2002 8:47 PM
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Resisting God
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Paul_S
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Tue Jun 25, 2002 1:31 AM
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Re: Resisting God
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Anonymous
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Tue Jun 25, 2002 4:01 PM
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Ambiguity and Contradictions
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Paul_S
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Tue Jun 25, 2002 5:28 PM
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Clarification
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Anonymous
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Fri Jun 28, 2002 8:53 PM
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Contradictions vs. Comfort
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Paul_S
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Sat Jun 29, 2002 4:10 AM
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Your comfort must be scriptural
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Anonymous
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Wed Jul 03, 2002 6:45 PM
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Re: Your comfort must be scriptural
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lazarus
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Thu Jul 04, 2002 12:45 PM
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Re: Your comfort must be scriptural
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carlos
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Sat Jul 06, 2002 2:57 AM
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Conditions vs. Performance
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Anonymous
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Fri Jul 12, 2002 4:44 PM
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Getting personal
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Paul_S
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Fri Jul 12, 2002 6:19 PM
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Re: Getting personal
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Anonymous
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Mon Aug 05, 2002 2:06 PM
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Re: Your comfort must be scriptural
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Anonymous
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Thu Jul 04, 2002 5:21 PM
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Re: Your comfort must be scriptural
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Pilgrim
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Thu Jul 04, 2002 9:39 PM
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What else could Saul do...?
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Anonymous
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Fri Jul 12, 2002 4:43 PM
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Re: What else could Saul do...?
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Pilgrim
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Fri Jul 12, 2002 5:11 PM
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Resisting the Holy Spirit
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Anonymous
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Mon Aug 05, 2002 2:03 PM
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Re: Resisting the Holy Spirit
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Anonymous
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Mon Aug 05, 2002 7:50 PM
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Re: Resisting the Holy Spirit
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Anonymous
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Sat Aug 24, 2002 5:16 AM
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Recreated or Born Again?
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Wes
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Fri Jul 12, 2002 10:10 PM
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Re: Recreated or Born Again?
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Anonymous
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Mon Aug 05, 2002 1:59 PM
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Re: Resisting God
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lazarus
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Wed Jun 26, 2002 4:25 PM
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Redirection
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Anonymous
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Fri Jun 28, 2002 9:13 PM
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Re: Resisting God
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Tom
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Sun Jul 21, 2002 5:59 PM
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Re: Resisting God
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Anonymous
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Mon Aug 05, 2002 2:01 PM
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Re: Resisting God
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Pilgrim
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Mon Aug 05, 2002 4:48 PM
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Joshism & Revelation 22:19
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J_Edwards
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Tue Jun 25, 2002 11:04 AM
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Take God's warnings seriously
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Anonymous
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Tue Jun 25, 2002 3:40 PM
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Josh you need to repent
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J_Edwards
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Tue Jun 25, 2002 5:57 PM
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Josh if you are coorect THEN
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J_Edwards
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Wed Jun 26, 2002 12:54 AM
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Re: Josh if you are coorect THEN
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Anonymous
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Fri Jun 28, 2002 9:03 PM
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Re: Josh if you are coorect THEN
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J_Edwards
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Sat Jun 29, 2002 10:54 AM
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Right...
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Anonymous
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Fri Jun 28, 2002 8:57 PM
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Re: Right...
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J_Edwards
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Fri Jun 28, 2002 9:54 PM
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Hebrews 6
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Anonymous
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Mon Jul 08, 2002 8:52 PM
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Re: Hebrews 6
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J_Edwards
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Mon Jul 08, 2002 10:03 PM
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Re: Hebrews 6
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Anonymous
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Tue Jul 30, 2002 1:32 PM
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Re: Hebrews 6
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J_Edwards
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Tue Jul 30, 2002 8:51 PM
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Re: Hebrews 6
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carlos
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Tue Jul 30, 2002 10:36 PM
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Re: Hebrews 6
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J_Edwards
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Wed Jul 31, 2002 9:53 AM
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Re: Hebrews 6
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carlos
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Wed Jul 31, 2002 7:01 PM
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The Grip of God
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Anonymous
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Thu Jul 11, 2002 11:56 PM
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Re: Josh you need to repent
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Anonymous
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Wed Jul 31, 2002 9:56 PM
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Re: Josh you need to repent
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J_Edwards
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Wed Jul 31, 2002 10:44 PM
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Re: Josh you need to repent
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Anonymous
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Wed Jul 31, 2002 11:31 PM
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Josh
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Anonymous
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Wed Jul 31, 2002 11:43 PM
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Re: Josh
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J_Edwards
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Thu Aug 01, 2002 10:07 AM
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Re: Josh
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Anonymous
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Thu Aug 01, 2002 12:40 PM
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Re: Josh
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J_Edwards
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Thu Aug 01, 2002 1:49 PM
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Re: Josh
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Pilgrim
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Thu Aug 01, 2002 3:38 PM
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Re: Josh
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J_Edwards
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Thu Aug 01, 2002 3:40 PM
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Re: Josh
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Anonymous
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Thu Aug 01, 2002 6:44 PM
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Re: Josh
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Pilgrim
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Thu Aug 01, 2002 8:28 PM
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Re: Josh
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Anonymous
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Fri Aug 02, 2002 6:22 PM
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Re: Josh
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Pilgrim
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Fri Aug 02, 2002 7:07 PM
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Re: Josh
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Anonymous
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Wed Aug 07, 2002 11:33 AM
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Re: Josh
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Anonymous
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Sat Aug 24, 2002 6:20 AM
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Re: Josh
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Pilgrim
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Sat Aug 24, 2002 11:23 AM
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Re: Josh
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Anonymous
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Fri Oct 11, 2002 2:49 PM
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Re: Josh
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Ehud
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Fri Oct 11, 2002 3:19 PM
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Re: Josh
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lazarus
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Sat Oct 12, 2002 10:50 PM
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Re: Josh
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Anonymous
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Sun Aug 04, 2002 10:41 PM
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Re: Josh
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Anonymous
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Thu Aug 01, 2002 6:31 PM
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Re: Josh
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Pilgrim
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Thu Aug 01, 2002 8:12 PM
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Re: Josh
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Anonymous
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Fri Aug 02, 2002 4:37 PM
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Re: Josh
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lazarus
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Fri Aug 02, 2002 5:02 PM
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Re: Josh
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carlos
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Fri Aug 02, 2002 6:55 PM
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The foreknowledge and sovereignty of God
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Anonymous
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Thu Aug 08, 2002 2:17 PM
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In my defense...
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Anonymous
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Thu Aug 08, 2002 2:14 PM
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Re: In my defense...
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J_Edwards
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Thu Aug 08, 2002 2:50 PM
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In reply...
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Anonymous
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Tue Aug 27, 2002 6:17 PM
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Re: In reply...
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J_Edwards
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Tue Aug 27, 2002 7:55 PM
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Re: In reply...
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Anonymous
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Tue Oct 01, 2002 4:35 PM
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Re: In reply...
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J_Edwards
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Sun Oct 13, 2002 1:36 PM
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Re: In my defense...
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fredman
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Thu Aug 08, 2002 3:09 PM
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Re: Revelation 22:19 Contradicts Calvinist Doctrine
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li0scc0
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Wed Apr 02, 2003 5:21 PM
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Re: Revelation 22:19 Contradicts Calvinist Doctrine
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Pilgrim
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Fri Jun 06, 2014 7:32 PM
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Re: Changing a book doesn't change God
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042Dave
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Tue Jan 05, 2021 1:10 PM
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