Hi Josh,<br><br>I had said in my post to you: <br><br>[color:blue]The thing it seems like you're not understanding is that true humility, for example--the kind that is pleasing to God--is good. It's a type of goodness, and without being born from above, we just don't have any of that in us. When the Bible says that we are dead in sin, it means it. We can't DO any good in the sense of godly goodness. True humility is one of those things. We simply don't possess the ability to be truly humble before God when we are outside of Christ. We also don't have a true forgiving spirit or true love for others, or any other of these things that you listed that God sees as good. We can have things which masquerade as them, but at best they are all tainted with sin.</font color=blue><br><br>I also said:<br><br>[color:blue]So, when you say:</font color=blue> [color:red]He simply has chosen to save those who humble themselves and hear His voice,</font color=red>[color:blue] you are basically saying that God has chosen to save those who had this goodness in them in that they were truly humble and listened to Him. </font color=blue><br><br>You responded with this:<br><br>[color:red]Incorrect. Unless God calls the sinner first, there can be no good in him, including humility; for nothing good is present in our flesh. The big difference in our beliefs is that I believe that one can decide to be humble or not. To clarify, God does choose to save those who humble themselves in response to His drawing and conviction by the Holy Spirit, not those who are just not as proud as their fellows.</font color=red><br><br>My reply to that is that Scripture shows mankind (after the Fall, before Glory) who are living on the earth to be in one of two states. Either man is: (1) dead in sin or (2) alive in Christ. In which state would we find the person you are talking about? This person who you are saying has not humbled himself or herself but is able to, are they dead in sin or alive in Christ? I just don't see Scripture showing us any "in-between" state. It is my belief that we are dead in sin UNTIL we are alive in Christ and that while we are dead in sin we can do no good, which would include truly humbling ourselves before God. Further, I see that while we are dead in sin we have absolutely no desire to even do so. <br><br>Looking forward to your reply,<br>RefBap<br><br><br><br><br>